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Guarantee of Non-FDIC Insured Annuities
Therramus 09-15-2008, 4:41 PM | Post #2562227 |  8 Replies
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Learned today from Motley Fool (http://www.fool.com/investing/dividends-income/2008/09/15/are-annuities-at-risk.aspx) that certain States provide a level of protection against failure of providers of annuities  - most of which are not covered by FDIC insurance. This link enables you to check out the situation for your State  (http://www.nolhga.com/policyholderinfo/main.cfm/location/ga).

I assume that this could provide a certain level of cover for TIAA traditional accounts in the case of the unthinkable, though I guess that there is little protection for many if not all of the mutual fund-like investments offered by TIAA-CREFF.

 Can anyone enlighten on this further ?
 

 

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Re: Guarantee of Non-FDIC Insured Annuities
lele.. 09-15-2008, 4:56 PM | Post #2562238
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Therramus:

Learned today from Motley Fool (http://www.fool.com/investing/dividends-income/2008/09/15/are-annuities-at-risk.aspx) that certain States provide a level of protection against failure of providers of annuities  - most of which are not covered by FDIC insurance.

I don't think any annuity is covered by FDIC insurance.  FDIC insurance protects bank deposits - checking, savings, CDs 

Therramus:

though I guess that there is little protection for many if not all of the mutual fund-like investments offered by TIAA-CREFF.

 Can anyone enlighten on this further ?

The only thing mutual funds are protected against is someone stealing your shares from your account.  That is covered through SIPIC.  But that doesn't protect you from a falling market.  Just from theft.

Re: Guarantee of Non-FDIC Insured Annuities
raywax 09-15-2008, 5:36 PM | Post #2562253
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Yes most states have a Guaranty Association which provides a limited amount of protection against a failure of an insurance company that issues an annuity. Go to Google and enter Guaranty Association and you will get some hits, one of which is for an organization of such Associations.

Alternatively you can to to the two bogelheads.org forum and read the various posts on this subject.Or you can of course do both. 

I will warn you that there is no simple direct answer to the question but you will find that out on your own, eventually.

 Ray

Re: Guarantee of Non-FDIC Insured Annuities
Therramus 09-15-2008, 5:39 PM | Post #2562254
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Yes I agree... the protection is NOT FDIC based insurance. These guarantees are provided by certain States as part of an arrangement for the insurance/annuity company to do business there. Check out the websites given in the OP.
Re: Guarantee of Annuities
crefwatch 09-15-2008, 6:53 PM | Post #2562306
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Therramus, I think you'll want to read this previous thread on the same subject:

LINK 

Be sure you read the entire thread, because I made an erronious statement in the OP which is corrected further on. I want to remind you that all mutual funds are required to have their stocks and other investments held by a custody agent. We own the stocks in a mutual fund, not the company that runs the mutual fund. Our stocks cannot be used to cover the debts or obligations of the mutual fund company.

We are certainly exposed to any decline in the many stocks and bonds we may have in our mutual funds; That's why we bought the mutual funds.

But the failure of an investment company is not as catastrophic to the customers as would be the failure of an annuity-issuing insurance company. And, I might add, our (non-TIAA Traditional) annuities at TIAA-CREF are backed by the investments in the CREF accounts/TIAA Real Estate Account. Like those in a mutual fund, they are OURS, not CREF's. And they are held at a custody agent.

You are right to be concerned, but wrong to be frightened. It says right on the inside cover of the CREF prospectus "...not guaranteed by the FDIC or any other government agency." This is not a secret. But it's also not a secret, if you keep all your retirement money in a bank, you will be eating cat food during your retirement.

Tim 

Edit: To change the subject to AIG for a moment, consider that AIG had to mark down its portfolio of credit default swaps by $25 billion. Never mind which B.S.D.- Masters of the Universe there were stupid enough to write them. The point is that TIAA has never been in the credit swap writing business. So they'll never have to write them down, or post another $18 billion in collateral (AIG again). Sometimes it's good to do business with a company that's never in the news ... 

Re: Guarantee of Non-FDIC Insured Annuities
jbingham1 09-15-2008, 7:38 PM | Post #2562338
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I looked up my state and..."The Ohio Life & Health Insurance Guaranty Association (OLHIGA) is a non-profit association of insurance companies that sell life insurance, health insurance, and annuities in Ohio."  I don't know about you, but this does not sound like a State backing, but an aliance of companies providing support for owners.  They specifically note that they only back policies issued by member companies.

 

jb

Re: Guarantee of Non-FDIC Insured Annuities
ats5g 09-15-2008, 8:03 PM | Post #2562353
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As jb pointed out, this is not the state kicking in the money.  The insurers doing business in that state are assessed a share of the money needed to cover the claims of the insurer going out of business.

FWIW - I live in MD and called the Maryland Life & Health Insurance Guaranty Corporation, and was told that TIAA is most definitely not part of the guarantee association, and thus their annuities are not insured at all.  So, you might want to check with your state's guarantee corp/association.

Re: Guarantee of Non-FDIC Insured Annuities
Louie123 09-15-2008, 8:19 PM | Post #2562361
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Tim,

Tks for the useful reference in previous post.

BTW you shouldn't be so frightened of the prospect of eating cat food.... to paraphrase Mr Pop its "...so good for you, makes you strong and clever too"    :')

Best ,

Rob

 

Re: Guarantee of Non-FDIC Insured Annuities
uphaus 09-16-2008, 7:25 AM | Post #2562502
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I offer a mere--but possibly important--footnote to what Tim and Alec have already said.

A while back (at the Bogleheads site), Nisiprius--as I recall--brought up the whole question of guarantees, including whether TIAA participates in state guaranty associations.  At that time I told Nisiprius that I would make inquiries through the law firm I use and in discussions with three WMAs.

The uniform answer I received was "No."  TIAA does not participate in state guaranty associations.

Since the question has come up again, especially in light of AIGs perilous situation, I have sent an e-mail to the TIAA main office asking them to clarify, once and for all, the question of guarantees--especially, the matter of whether TIAA participates in state guaranty associations.

I hope TIAA responds because the company surely reads the newspapers and I know employees are aware of this discussion site.  The ideal response, in my view, would be for TIAA not to answer me personally, but to post a detailed transparent explanation at its homepage for everyone to read.  Bob U.

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