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Worry some
worrysum 09-06-2008, 2:34 AM | Post #2558521 |  8 Replies
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Here we go. We just turned our 401K over to an advisor who of course charges a 1% fee. We are 3 years away from retirement. Investor has talked my husband into putting what I believe to be 60% of the portfoio into higher risks. I am not so sure about this. Would the financial planner get a bigger kick back on the following type of investments.Here are a few of the large holdings. Freedom Balanced Allocations, Frontier Managed Futures,Central Park Group Multi - Event Fund & Evergreen High Income Fund. These are just a few. The other 40 is in bonds. The info I have is the prospectus, but still not so sure. Morningstar states that you have to be a Financial Planner to access information on most of these holdings. 

Could someone give us any idea about this type of mix. I just don't think this is a smart move considering our time line.  What do you think. A bit worried.

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Re: Worry some
hurleyhuckster 09-06-2008, 7:21 AM | Post #2558534
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Yes, I would be worried too, if I just handed over my life savings to some person and did not really understand what it was invested in.  Why is it so hard for many of us to just say "NO", or "let me sleep on it", or "take more time to understand".......I dunno, it just is sometimes.

The fact that finding information about these investments is harder than normal, bothers me.

The freedom fund is probably like a fund of funds, there is like 6 to choose from based on risk tolerance.  My brother is in one of these.  Dont know if its the same funds.  I forget the name of the outfit......Raymond James maybe?

Need more information.

Hopefully others can be more helpful. 

Brian

One more thought.
hurleyhuckster 09-06-2008, 7:33 AM | Post #2558537
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You say you have a prospectus....Do you have one for each investment. 

If so, take some time to look through these.  I know it can seem daunting, but the facts are in there.  Use the table of contents.  Look for "Fees & Expenses",  "Objectives", "Risks", "Early Redemption" etc....

I am pretty sure, you will need to provide more to get some help here.  Maybe if your lucky someone is familiar with these investments.

Good Luck and check back in with your questions.

Brian

Re: One more thought.
meyerr 09-06-2008, 7:45 AM | Post #2558540
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Make a list of the symbols of the funds. Go to fidelity.com, research, mutual funds and input the list of funds. You will be able to see a comparison of things like the e.r., risk, etc. They will also do a total return chart comparison which will allow you to look at the ups and downs of the various funds. If you are not a premium member of M*, become one and use the portfolio tool to do an analysis of your portfolio. Sometimes a little bit of a riskier fund decreases the overall riskiness of the portfolio. Put the symbols of the funds here, (some of us are very lazy) and some people will give you reports and comments which are worth exactly what you pay for them b/c we have very different risk tolerances and needs and therefore look at these things differently than you might. (My portfolio would probably give you a heart attack) Roberta
Re: Worry some
rpike 09-06-2008, 9:05 AM | Post #2558566
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I would start with a benchmark. If you look at the Vanguard Target Retirement 2010 Fund, a fund of funds allocated to suit the "average" 2010 retiree, it holds about 45% in bonds with some of that in inflation adjusted treasuries (TIPS). The remainder is in domestic and foreign stock index funds. If you purchased this yourself w/o an advisor, you would have a simple portfolio that would probably cost you about 1/10 what this advisor and funds are costing you.

I much prefer FEE-ONLY advisors who meet with you for an hourly rate and set up a plan that you implement yourself. Unfortunately they don't make as much money this way, so they are few and far between. The kind you usually find make money of a percentage of your account and/or a kickback from the funds they sell you. You really need to understand something about this stuff before hiring an advisor, and if you do understand, you probably don't need one.

There was a good post here a while ago by El Toro called

Long-term investment & planning concepts

 

that's still worth reading and a good book should also help you. There is a recommended book list at http://www.bogleheads.org/readbooks.htm including one I have heard good things about called The Bogleheads' Guide to Investing.

Another Rick 

Re: Worry some
pkcrafter 09-06-2008, 1:04 PM | Post #2558660
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I think you may have good reason to worry. But more information would be helpful. The Freedom Balanced Allocations for instance. Are these funds from Fidelity? Do you have ticker symbols for the funds you've mentioned? The Fidelity freedom funds might be good choices depending on which one is used, but the others you've mentioned are cause for worry.

Here's what I found on Frontier Managed Futures. I doubt this fund is appropriate for a retiree, especially one who does not understand these types of investments.

 IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO VIEW THE FRONTIER FUND PROSPECTUS, IN ITS ENTIRETY, PLEASE CLICK HERE . To obtain a hard copy of the Prospectus, please call your financial advisor. Please note this offering is made only through FINRA members, who must prominently display their names to potential investors.

YOU SHOULD CAREFULLY CONSIDER WHETHER YOUR FINANCIAL CONDITION PERMITS YOU TO PARTICIPATE IN A COMMODITY POOL. IN SO DOING, YOU SHOULD BE AWARE THAT FUTURES AND OPTIONS TRADING CAN QUICKLY LEAD TO LARGE LOSSES, AS WELL AS GAINS. SUCH TRADING LOSSES CAN SHARPLY REDUCE THE NET ASSET VALUE OF THE POOL, AND CONSEQUENTLY, THE VALUE OF YOUR INTEREST IN THE POOL. IN ADDITION, RESTRICTIONS ON REDEMPTIONS MAY AFFECT YOUR ABILITY TO WITHDRAW YOUR PARTICIPATION IN THE POOL.

http://www.thefrontierfund.com/whyManagedFutures.aspx 

The Central Park thing appears to be an institutional hedge fund. The Evergreen high yield fund is a load fund investing in junk bonds.  I suspect your fees are very high and from what you posted, I'd get another advisor, PDQ.

 

Paul 

 

Re: Worry some
hurleyhuckster 09-06-2008, 3:52 PM | Post #2558712
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Good digging Paul.  I was curious so I took a look....here are some more worrysome quotes...

Not to scare you, but hey it is scarry!  I would of loved to of been a fly on the wall during this consultation.  Was this presented as a conservative investment, or just a small portion at higher risk?

Here goes...following are from prospectus

The Trust is a new venture in a high-risk business. An investment in the Units of each Series is very speculative. You should make an investment in one or more of the Series only after consulting with independent, qualified sources of investment and tax advice and only if your financial condition will permit you to bear the risk of a total loss of your investment.

FURTHER, COMMODITY POOLS MAY BE SUBJECT TO SUBSTANTIAL CHARGES FOR MANAGEMENT, AND ADVISORY AND BROKERAGE FEES. IT MAY BE NECESSARY FOR THOSE POOLS THAT ARE SUBJECT TO THESE CHARGES TO MAKE SUBSTANTIAL TRADING PROFITS TO AVOID DEPLETION OR EXHAUSTION OF THEIR ASSETS.

 The Trust is not a mutual fund or any other type of investment company within the meaning of the Investment Company Act, as amended, and is not subject to the regulations under the Investment Company Act.

You should not invest more than 10% of your net worth (exclusive of home, furnishings and automobiles in the case of individuals; or readily marketable securities in the case of entities) in any Series of Units of the Trust, or in the Trust as a whole.

An investment in the Trust is speculative and involves a high degree of risk. The Trust is not suitable for all investors. The Managing Owner offers the Trust as a diversification opportunity for an investor’s investment portfolio, and therefore an investment in the Trust should represent only a limited portion of your overall portfolio.

 

 

You should not invest more than 10% of your net worth (exclusive of home, furnishings and automobiles in the case of individuals; or readily marketable securities in the case of entities) in any Series of Units of the Trust, or in the Trust as a whole.

An investment in the Trust is speculative and involves a high degree of risk. The Trust is not suitable for all investors. The Managing Owner offers the Trust as a diversification opportunity for an investor’s investment portfolio, and therefore an investment in the Trust should represent only a limited portion of your overall portfolio.

 

 

 

Re: Worry some
Limoman 09-07-2008, 6:14 AM | Post #2558911
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Well  IMO?  IAD..( It All Depends)

First of all? Suggest you go to> M*Retirement Discussion Board and post this Q. there..

And Doesn't the Mix laid out for your $ depend upon ?

( After you have done Reserach on doing a  Financial Plan for Your Retirement using such sites as ( Click on Names) :  M* Retirement Planning - Tools and Calculators -, VG How Much to Save site  ( and there are many others )  that will help you determine several things you need..

A. How much you have?

B. How much Income You will Need come retirement Time?

C. And how to try to get it to last 20-25 yrs?

If your Finanical Plan shows that you won't have Enough In total $ saved up to  say:      @ 4% WD rate won't get the job done for you  @ it earning a total of say 7% apy?

Then the choices may require you to take on more Risk to earn a Higher Return..

EG:

Ave Median Income of  @$50k yr (net after tax) for Retirement Needed

Going to get -$20k in SS - 21% taxes = $16k Net

Need a Neet Bal. of $34k Yr + Taxes of 21% = $43k yr from savings

then doing a + 3% For Inflation for the next 20-25 yrs

Your Total Savings May need to Make 8% or More to pay your bills and keep up with Inflation  to (hopefully) last the 20-25 yrs expectantcy for retirement.

And Most FP's /Advisors use the Traditional 60/40 mix for openers

and unless your very good at Evaluating Stocks/Bonds and 2nd guessing a Fund's Investment and have done better than they have?

If your Recommended Port is a  Balanced Port...

I'd be Picking out a 1/2 dozen same kind of Mixes ( Balanced Funds) to Compare yours too..such as:

A. Other Fund Companies Target Funds ( Like TRP,Vanguard )

B. A Mix of 6-8 Index Fund in Ports of  80/20,70/30,60/40,50/50, 40/60 & 30/70

 C. AMBF's ( Active Managed Balanced Funds) of say : VWELX, VWINX, FPACX,OAKBX,PRPFX,PRWCX. for Example.

D. And You know How to Do The Research on them for the past 10,8,5 Yrs..and How to set those Ports up , Using M* Port. service to also Track them in the future..

And of course,What is the Individuals ( Or Firm) Track History ? For say the past 8 & 10 yrs?

and a 1% fee is Normal and quite reasonable for smaller accounts..

Eg> Per $100,000 x 1% = $1,000 cost to spend the average of  a total of 10 hrs a yr supervising and making all the adjustments to your account thru out the yr is only $100/hr rate..after they take out their expenses, they might ave $70 hr profit margin.( -30% Self employment taxes and they net maybe $50/hr )

That's pretty Cheap to have a decent Professional( Individual/Firm) working for you. Most I've Ck'd out charge 1.5-2.5% with Good Investment/advising/Management Credentials..

Especially if you lack the Knowledge,Proven Experience and Have the Time to do the same kind of job at hand..

And FYI? Most in these Boards are " Active- Hands On Management Investors"  that have the above Experience/Knowledge and Time to Managed their Own $. and are strong Advocates for doing so and Not so much using a Firm to do it for them.

There are Some in here that can give their Opinions, after you may want to give them some Financials that Include( but not limited too)

1. How much do your Expect to be needing After Retirement the first yr.?

2. How much Other Sources of Income you will have from: A Pension, SS, Etc. ( Total Gross and then after tax- net )

3. And How much personal Savings you have Now ?

4. How much are you Making and Can Save for the Next 3 yrs

5. Is your Home paid for and Can That be " Downsized" and More tax Free $ can come from the change..to be added to your Savings..

and then come up with some Recommendations that you "might" want to consider looking further into..

Discloseur: I am just a early retired 61 yr old amature investor and a advocate of Just owning AMBF's mentioned in "C". and just adding additional Bond Funds if one has enough $ based upon those AMBF's rtns past 10 yrs apy's - 20% . If they will need More Income? Then Additonal Equity Funds will have to be added to, to change the Mix to a Higher Equity Mix. ( My Current Retirement Port of a Mix of Those AMBF's + other Funds ,  has ave. 12.5% apy the past 10 yrs. ending 2007 ) and can be contacted directly @ DKP50@aol.com

Re: Worry some
worrysum 09-10-2008, 10:01 PM | Post #2560392
1  

Hey Paul,

 

Thanks so much for the information. I have wanted to reply to all the helpful comments.

I have been doing lots of research and have had very little sleep,  We do have an appointment with RJFS in the morning. Unfortunately I think this has been a very expensive education. I just hope that we are not locked into the Managed Futures.

At this time 25% of our portfolio is alternative investments. I would not consider this a moderate risk portofolio. I know it will be even more sickening when I find out the fees this slime ball has already made. Now I hope I can convince my husband to get rid of this guy.   Thanks so much for the info. on Frontier. I will study it carefully.

Worrysum 

 

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