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A little advice?
RobSg 08-15-2008, 10:18 AM | Post #2551019 |  4 Replies
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Hi-

You might remember my posts as a high school science teacher teaching overseas for 35+ years and now teaching for one year in Vermont.  After this year, I'll be 62+, and would like to annuitize my TIAA Traditional (almost all of it after-tax).  It will give me what I feel is a very comfortable retiremment or semi-retirement  (working part-time or not at all, and traveling). About 90% of my funds in TIAA-CREF are from sefl-remitters.

My confusion comes with my other funds- TIAA-RE funds ($150,000+, also after tax), and a small amount in Stocks ($20,000).  I really don't want to use these two funds until I'm 70. Do you recommend leaving the RE funds intact and just waiting out the real estate slump, or putting all that money in the bond market, or somehow splitting it up?

My ATRA TIAA Traditional cannot be split, so opening up a new TIAA acoount is impossible.  I'm very happy with the amount I currently have in the TIAA Traditional and do not need anymore.  I'm just concerned about the security and growth of the rest of my funds for late use.

Thank you so much for any advice.

Regards, Rob

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Re: A little advice?
crefwatch 08-15-2008, 11:36 AM | Post #2551039
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Rob, I recall your mentioning that you could not partially annuitize the TIAA Traditional account. Are you prepared to revisit that rule with them? It just sounds like it's for their convenience and not an IRS rule. Unfortunately, there are not a huge number of lawyers who specialize in TIAA-CREF participants.

You didn't mention if you have a normal life expectancy (whatever that means!) Are you considering the Graded Payment TIAA option? It sounds like you could afford it.

As a matter of principal, I will not recommend market timing your REA funds. And moving to a bond fund when interest rates are relatively low is a recipe for disappointment. Have you asked yourself whether you will be able to keep your hands off the REA if it should ever have a down year? That's part of the answer to your question. You said that TIAA Traditional is enough for your retirement, so I would hope that your anxiety level is not as high as your question suggests. (I'm not trying to psychoanalyze you, I'm just trying to read the characters on my screen, if you know what I mean ...)

It would also be useful to ask, suppose your remaining $170,000 does just decently for eight years (ages 62 to 70). If it makes 6%, you'd have, say, $270,954 before taxes. If you bought a single-premium immediate annuity, the first calculator I found said $2,076 monthly for one life at 70. (Of course, that's a very soft number)

How does that affect your perception of your plan? Obviously, I mean for you to compare it to your expected TIAA Traditional payement, and what you think about the next 8 years of inflation.

I can only speak for myself, but I would review your situation if you could look up your previous threads and post links for them. I recall that your situation was unique, but that you had a very large amount saved for retirement.

Tim 

Re: A little advice?
raywax 08-15-2008, 11:43 AM | Post #2551043
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Yes I do remember the thread you initiated with your post.

As I undersand this post you are asking what to do with about $170,000 currently invested with T-C. It is not clear to me what you mean by "after tax." I think but am not sure, that you are trying to say that the funds are not held in a tax deferred account of any type; in this case then the funds are held in a taxable account. Is this correct?

An answer to your question is not in my opinion dependent on the tax status of the account so I will ignore that consideration. The question that we would need, you have to remember we don't remember what you have posted before, is what share these two investments are of you total retirement investments, irrespective where they are invested.

IF the rest of your funds are in theTIA Traditional Account and they are most of your total retirement investments, and these along with other investments escept (excluding)  the $170,000 you are talking about here, then you are in a position to accept some market risk for this $170,000. How much risk is something only you can decide and it will determine what you invested these funds in.

You can leave them in the REA but in my opinion there is the risk there will be a negative quarter (or more than one negative quarter) and you could take a loss; I think this is a real possibility so I suggest you conisder it as that. If you can accept such a loss and are interested in the long term (it seems you are) than it would not be unreasonable to leave the funds in the REA. Doing so has the advantage of having funds invested in Real Estate which is a distinct asset class and it would normally add diversification to your portfolio. Holding up to 20% in the REA for its return AND diversificaion benefit it reasonable.

IF you invest the $170,000 in bonds you are subject to interest rate risk. IF interest rates increase (eventually they surely will but what when that will occur is another question) then your investment in the bonds will decline. IF on the other hand the world bears are correct and the world goes into a prolonged recession, your bonds would appreciate. Again it is up to you.

Assuming the funds are taxable you do not want to invest in TIPS - US Treasury Inflation Protected Securities for a reason that is too complex to explain here. If the funds are taxable, than I suggest you buy a mix of 10 and 20-year TIPS at the next auction in Jan. of 09.

IF you can accept the risk associated with stocks, then consider simply investing the funds either in the CREF Stock Account or the CREF Global Account or any other mix of funds that appeal to you, though I would suggest you keep it simple and both of these would achieve that objective (and give you reasonable diversification).

That's about all I could say at this point. 

Ray

Re: A little advice? Thanks, Tim
RobSg 08-15-2008, 11:52 AM | Post #2551047
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I do expect to live a long time with my current good healthy.  I will of course be using the "graded" for TIAA. Unfortunately, however, TIAA- CREF has this rule that an after-tax annuity, for which I have large investment in, cannot be partially annuitized. It's just the way it is. 

My anxiety level is not that high, but I'm just looking for idea on where to put the TIAA-RE.  I can certainly afford a down year for TIAA-RE, but was just wondering if there were other alternatives within the TIAA-CREF framework.

Thank you for your ideas, Tim.

Regards, Rob

Re: A little advice? Thanks, Ray
RobSg 08-15-2008, 3:51 PM | Post #2551103
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Thanks, Ray. As mentioned in my previous posts more than a year ago, 90% of all my funds with TIAA-CREF are my own contributions. Only two of my institutions contributed to TIAA-CREF, and that was in the 1970's.  Any money I had left over from my paycheck would not go in the bank but instead with TIAA-CREF (since 1977). That is referred to as after tax contributions.  My account with TIAA-CREF is the ATRA (after tax retirement annuity). The good thing about this (I think) is that I will only be taxed on the principal when I do annuitize. The bad thing is that I MUST either do the TPA for the whole TIAA amount or annuitize it all. All the lawyers in the world cannot change those rules and regulations I'm afraid.

The $150,000 I have in my TIAA RE and $20,000 in the stock constitute about 19% of my total, and the rest is with TIAA.  I guess the reason is that it was always the simplest, especially for one that is interested in retiring comfortably but does not want to read up about all the different and complicated options (Roth IRA etc).

I guess I'll stick with the TIAA RE and hope it bounces back to a reasonable amount.  I'm not eligible for the inflation adjusted funds that you mentioned since I am contributing everything myself.

Thank you again.

 

Regards, Rob

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