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Roth IRA or Deferred Comp program at work
Denzin 07-03-2008, 5:29 PM | Post #2535333 |  5 Replies
1  

I've a question about looking for a resource to help decide about investing with a deferrred comp program via my wife's work or a ROTH IRA.

 With the Deferred Comp program we get to place pre-tax money into the account. We pay 35% of our gross in taxes (fed, medicare, ss, and state). Also her deferred comp program charges an annual 0.9% annual fee for managing the deferred comp program. It is the fee that concerns me the most because excess fees also results in lower savings. This will be significant since we plan on placing money monthly into the deferred comp account for the next 20 years.

 The other option is to place the money into a ROTH IRA. We will pay our taxes up front but will forgo the 0.9% annual fee. However once we need the money we can withdraw tax fee.

I'm looking for a tool to help decide between these two options. We will only have enough money to either fund her deferred comp or the ROTH IRA. We will not have the money to fund both.

I will primarily invest in index funds regardless of which choice I end up using.
 

Thanks
 

.

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Re: Roth IRA or Deferred Comp program at work
Limoman 07-06-2008, 7:42 AM | Post #2535942
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"I will primarily invest in index funds regardless of which choice I end up using. "

Re: LOL.. This is probably why you haven't gotten any responses so far...

Charts? tools?  as in the Movie saying> "You don't need No stinking Charts"

Just make up your own..Based upon a $10,000 basis..

or a 1st yr Accounting Major can do that for you as well..( ck your Loacl University ) or Go pay a CPA Guy  a couple of Hundred bucks!

and what's a lousy 1% annual fee on Per $10k? A lousy $100/yr?

and with $100k = $1,000 yr?

Don't be a Cheapskate..ie: It's the Penny wise and Dollar Foolish " trick

The Differed program would be my 1st choice, especially at a 35% tax braket..

Differring $3,500 Yr on a per $10k Basis is a No brainer to me.. Expeically over a 20 yr basis..? Compund that out at a 7% apy and see what you come up with vs using $3,500 Yr Less..

And so what if you have to pay 1/3rd in taxes when you take it out., you will will have 2/3rd more !

As for using Index Funds? Maybe.. but If a Bal. Index Port of a 60/40 Mix gives you an ave of 7.7% apy vs some ActiveMangedBal Funds ( AMBF's) give you 11% apy, don't you think your better off in them? ( even look at VWELX or VWINX vs AMBF's like FPACX,OAKBX,PRWCX,PRPFX for Example ) which by-the way are still in the Black as of 7/04.. vs a 60/40 Index port is DWN about -6% Ytd...they got to be feeling really secure being in those Index Funds..LOL

And 3% apy would "only" just about DOUBLE your $ after 20 yrs..

But, seeing as your Ina 35% tax bracket and are a Rich boy, You don't need more $..So, your right, stick to those Index funds that are Lower Fees, Less taxes and Much Lower Rtns, so you won't have to pay more taxes...LOL

Of course, I am just a Retired guy and  I am Biased and Advocate AMBF's for most of us Amature Investors..Since I played those indexing games for many-a-yrs..but there wasn't much else when I started out..back in the late 70's -90's ..

 

ps. If your Insistant on owing Index Funds? Maybe Ask the Indexers at

Bogleheads :: View topic - Asking Portfolio Questions

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Re: Roth IRA or Deferred Comp program at work
kerryvan 07-06-2008, 8:19 AM | Post #2535954
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What you don't say is what the differ comp is invested in...  If it is company stock,  HELLO Enron!!  Bears sterns, ...

okay, these are bad examples,  but can you do a ratio between the two choices?  Have faith in her company but also, plan on the worse?

I agree with Limoman on index funds, I posted on mutual funds the case for actively manged funds..  otherwise goto Bogleheads and technical analysis threads..  These are things an active mgr worries about..  and makes a heck lot more than I do for advise..  they make 400K- 2M a yr..

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Re: Roth IRA or Deferred Comp program at work
pkcrafter 07-06-2008, 8:48 AM | Post #2535967
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What type of plan is this—a 457? If your total fees are actually 0.9%, then use the plan.  The fees plus the ER of the index funds (assuming the ER's are very low) puts the total costs on the low side on most plans.You should probably fund both the DC plan and a Roth. If you can't add 10k to Roths and fund the plan, then maybe add 5k to a Roth and fund the plan with additional money.

You haven't provided your age, but if you are 30 for example and contribute a total of 10k per year for 30 years, you will end up with about 1.4 million in today's dollars (not inflation adjusted). That will allow a safe withdrawal rate of $56,000/year.

 

Paul 

 

 

 

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Re: Roth IRA or Deferred Comp program at work
orygunduck 07-06-2008, 1:08 PM | Post #2536050
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Since these are pre-tax contributions, I'll assume this is a 457(b) plan.

Now, whether to contribute to this or not really will have to do with your investment choices and the annual plan fees. Non-profit 457(b) plans have a bad reputation for the excessive fees and expensive, mediocre performing mutual funds the plan administrator (usually an insurance company) make available to plan contributers. You'll need to check on this.

If so, I think I'd pass on the 457 plan and contribute to your IRA.

 BruceM

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Re: Roth IRA or Deferred Comp program at work
PACKRAT5150 07-08-2008, 4:43 AM | Post #2536701
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I should tell first that you could do a combination of both.  Note: Check IRS publication 590 to see if you are with in income qualification before you try it however. 

 

Vanguard will let you start an account in index fund at 3000$. 

 

There is one major advantage to having a Roth account.  You can withdraw you initial invest at any time with out penalties.  Do read all the term of the account before try to do this.

 

Do you have an emergency savings account?  I don’t use my Roth account for this but you can save money in a bank FDIC insured Money Market or CD account with in a Roth IRA.  Banks like Bank of America and Citi Bank have it.  I would think that most banks would do the same.  It would be great to earn intrest tax free for your emergency account however you would have to leave the interest in there for 5 years.  Check the term of Roth before trying this.

 

Oh yes forgot to tell you can start a IRA at a bank for as little as 50$.  Once you build it up to say 3K$ you can transfer directly to mutual fund company like Vanguard.  Check with Mutual Fund Company before transferring assets.

 

Remember that money that is put in to your deferred account is about 50% larger to compensate for the taxes that are not taken when you try to compare it to a Roth account.

 

Just for fun calculate your taxes with both account just to see what I would be like.

 

The main advantage with the differed compensation account is dollar cost averaging.  You can make small buys (like 20$) ever payday automatically.  This tends to smooth out the highs and low of the market over time.  

Note: There are extremely high tax penalties for withdraws for deferred account and some like my 457 there is no loan provision. 

 

Note: There are some legal protection for 457 accounts   (I am not sure so please check) under lawsuits and bankruptcy

 

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