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takeoff from PE10
rascfw 07-04-2008, 8:27 AM | Post #2535451 |  4 Replies
1  

JWR, ElLobo, bilperk et al...

I apologize for my ignorance about PE10, but I have not yet had the opportunity to thoroughly review data on PE10. I have a few ideas/questions and would love to get your input.

First, the background stuff...

Re the concept of PE10, my understanding is that if PE10 is over a certain level (20? 23?), that is when PE10 signals the move to 80-100% in non-equity --cash, bonds or whatever else. IOW, it is a signal to retreat into a conservative shell and get out of equities... And then, of course, the reverse when PE10 is below a certain level.**

Am I correct in the core concept of PE10?

Assuming that I am correct about the general jist of PE10, why can't we apply this to other markets? Has anyone developed a test similar to PE10 for the EAFE? Or even a sort of reverse PE10 for junk bonds? ... Or, hopefully, for the BRIC indices? If so, please give us a link to data on that stuff.

Now for the kicker... Where can we get quotes for the current PE10... or is this something that we all have to calculate for ourselves? If we have to calculate it ourselves, how?  Please give me a simple formula... AND a link to a website where I can easily find the PE data for multiple years.

I look forward to hearing from you all. Thanks!

Regards,
Susan

**For those interested, here's a link to a search engine on JWR's site for PE10-related articles...  http://search.freefind.com/find.html?id=80287421&pid=r&mode=ALL&n=0&_charset_=iso-8859-1&bcd=%F7&query=P%2FE10

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Re: takeoff from PE10
JWR1945a 07-04-2008, 11:03 AM | Post #2535510
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Now for the kicker... Where can we get quotes for the current PE10... or is this something that we all have to calculate for ourselves? If we have to calculate it ourselves, how?  Please give me a simple formula... AND a link to a website where I can easily find the PE data for multiple years.

 

You can use the Stock Returns Predictor (button on left side) at my site to convert between P/E10 and the current S&P500 level.

The S&P500 dividend yield makes an excellent alternative to P/E10. I have not calculated a conversion factor between P/E10 and the dividend yield. (I have a button at my site with S&P500 Dividends. You can get the gist of how today's dividend yields compare.)

The basic source of information is Professor Robert Shiller's Online Data at his web site. His data has a graph of P/E10 versus calendar year.

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http://www.econ.yale.edu/~shiller/

 

Have fun.

 

John Walter Russell

 

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Re: takeoff from PE10
ElLobo 07-04-2008, 2:04 PM | Post #2535554
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One quick question.  Is the percentage allocation to equities a function of the current P/E10?  Recent posts seem to say yes.

Er, two.  If so, would a retiree (doing the traditional allocation based on P/E10) 'rebalance' to a new allocation if P/E10 changes significantly enought?  That is, if current P/E10 says to go 50/50, but, a year or two down the road, your allocation is still 50/50, but current P/E10 says to be 60/40, would you rebalance to that new allocation?

Ah, three.  If the P/E10 of the S&P500 says to be 50/50, while the P/E10 of some other fund, perhaps a value fund, said to be 60/40, would you allocate to 50/50 with the S&P500 index fund, but 60/40 to the other fund?

Again, I don't do things this way, but I am curious!

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Re: takeoff from PE10
JWR1945a 07-04-2008, 3:31 PM | Post #2535585
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One quick question.  Is the percentage allocation to equities a function of the current P/E10?  Recent posts seem to say yes.

Yes.

Er, two.  If so, would a retiree (doing the traditional allocation based on P/E10) 'rebalance' to a new allocation if P/E10 changes significantly enought?  That is, if current P/E10 says to go 50/50, but, a year or two down the road, your allocation is still 50/50, but current P/E10 says to be 60/40, would you rebalance to that new allocation?

Yes. I refer to this as "switching" (varying allocations according to P/E10). When used with an index fund, I refer to it as "Valuation Informed Indexing (VII or Lucky 7)." [Rob Bennett came up the phrase originally.]

I have found that training is superior to using a mechanically defined algorithm. [I had made some sophisticated calculators. I found that a human could rapidly learn to do even better.] The Scenario Surfer at my site allows you to train yourself rapidly. 

Ah, three.  If the P/E10 of the S&P500 says to be 50/50, while the P/E10 of some other fund, perhaps a value fund, said to be 60/40, would you allocate to 50/50 with the S&P500 index fund, but 60/40 to the other fund?

Yes and No. I know that I ended up using the same switching algorithms with the "Gummy Slices" of Large and Small Capitalization, Growth and Value. I do not know whether I tried to optimize them separately.

With my Current Research related to Dividends, I did change the algorithm. It was simpler. It resulted in a higher stock allocation with a higher P/E10. (I remember that P/E10=17 was the key threshold for a high stock allocation--but not the highest--as opposed to 14 or 15.) 

But remember, history does not repeat exactly. I have run sensitivity studies. They show that missing the exact optimum is OK. The optimal thresholds and allocations are quite broad.

Have fun.

John Walter Russell

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Re: takeoff from PE10
JWR1945a 07-04-2008, 4:55 PM | Post #2535598
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From my Current Research K:

 

Previously, with the S&P500 and its “Gummy Slices,” the optimal allocations had been 75%-40%-25% with P/E10 thresholds of 11 and 21, respectively. This time, a single threshold worked best [within any meaningful precision], with P/E10=17 in both cases. The optimal stock allocations were 75%-25%, below and above threshold, respectively. Both had a broad optimum.

 

Have fun.

 

John Walter Russell

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