This is another small cap gem which just recently re-opened.  The returns are better than TASCX, and it's also a low risk fund.  I bought into this one!

Baxter

Baxter,

Ok, you really got my attention with PNVDX - I had never heard of it before you mentoned it above. Interesting that they beat their index in the rough spell from 2000-2002 while badly underperforming when the market snapped back in 2003. You're right: it's "lower risk." I'm impressed with management. Long tenure. Relatively consistent results. What else do you know about this fund?

Ditto.

I ran a quick comparision between TASCX and PNVDX.

They have identical annual turnover of 27% and an identical 5-year annual return of 15.78%!

Overall, however, PNVDX tends to come out slightly better.

The only negatives I could identify in my cursory examination were a slightly higher expense ratio [PNVDX 1.21% vs. TASCX 1.10%] and an unethical 12b-1 fee of 0.25% charged by PNVDX.

On the other hand, Schwab does not charge a fee for PNVDX, so that represents a savings of $49.95--in my account at least.

Jagor 

Also, let's not forget that Allianz is a publicly held company that lost one of the PM since Pimco/NFJ was purchased by them.  I do not hold any funds of publicly held companies because I believe they are less aligned with shareholders and tend to stick around for far shorter periods of time.  Third Avenue (I also do not own but would buy first between these two options) is still independently run with a young PM and a deep analyst bench that knows only one way of investing.  The Whitman Way.  JMO

Here are two recent articles about PNVDX which provide a little more info about this fund.

http://news.morningstar.com/articlenet/article.aspx?id=236788

and

http://www.smartmoney.com/undertheradar/index.cfm?story=20080507-Allianz-Small-Cap-Value

Baxter

 

FYI

The Third Avenue funds were sold to Affiliated Managers Group, a publicly traded company (ticker: AMG), several years ago.

'tato
 

With respct to valunvestr's comment taht some mutual fund companies are publicly-held whereas others are private, it is indeed an important matter to consider when purchasing a mutual fund.

The potential conflict-of-interest between the fund managers and the mangement of the fund companies on the one hand and the customers on the other is an area of concern and is addressed by Louis Lowenstein in his book The Investor's Dilemma, recently reviewed in Barron's.

Thus there are several points to be made: first, at least 95% of all the mutual funds currently open for ivnestment are wothless wastes of money.  And it also happens that most of those funds are, indeed, products of for-profit, publicly-held companies, usually banks or insurance conglomerates.  Furthermore, a lot of the fund managers of publicly-owned companies do not even invest one red cent of their own money in the funds they manage; they prefer to play Monopoly with their customers' hard-earned savings.

But it is also true that many of the worthless funds are managed by employee-owned or privately-held companies.  And as Dan Wiener has pointed out recently, a surprisingly large number of Vanguard's fund managers don't care to invest in the funds they manage--and Vanguard is run as something of an investor-owned co-operative venture.

Thus there is no real cause-an-effect relationship that can be demonstrated between above-average returns of a mutual fund and the fact that the company is privately owned.

Finally, as 'tato reminds us, Third Avenue funds are no longer privately owned.  So, it seems the question is now moot.

I have conducted some additional due diligence on PNDVX and it still looks pretty appealing. For example, NFJ describes itself as a "deep value" shop, which sounds good to me.

Jagor  

I never suggested the returns are likely to be better because the firm is privately held.  I think the management is more likely to stick around though.  If you have two proven strategies, I would prefer to choose the one where the manager is more likely to stick around.  In this case, I think it is Third Avenue. 

This long-short SC fund has been quite successful on relative terms during its short three-year lifespan and the managers apparently have a large personal stake.  It's essentially a "quant" fund. 

I own and like it.  This is a difficult market and I make a point of carrying some positions that are relatively uncorrelated with the indexes. 

PNVDX looks interesting.  Thanks for mentioning it. 

FWIW. 

norbertc:

This long-short SC fund has been quite successful on relative terms during its short three-year lifespan and the managers apparently have a large personal stake.  It's essentially a "quant" fund. 

I own and like it.  This is a difficult market and I make a point of carrying some positions that are relatively uncorrelated with the indexes. 

Norbert,

You do manage to find some odd funds.  2.48% ER and 492% turnover ratio?!   The high turnover and diverse portfolio (393 holdings) is not unusual for a quant fund, which is one reason I don't particularly like them.   (Although I think they make more sense for SC funds than LC funds, since detailed information and analysis is harder to come by on small companies.)   With "black box" quant funds there's little to go on except past performance, and while this fund's past performance looks good, the future never repeats the past.   I always prefer to put my money in the hands of a human (or humans) whose brains and instincts I trust rather than a computer model which performed well in the past.   (The history on this particular fund is in fact limited.)   Didn't quantitative hedge funds get into trouble last summer?

M* touched on long-short funds in this article, and if you scroll down to the paragraph "Long-Short Disappointment" you'll see they are panning your fund TFSMX while praising HSGFX.   (Which reminds me, I haven't seen much recently written here about the erstwhile econometricist and fitness guru John P. Hussman (Ph.D.).)

Re TASCX: own it, like it.   Last couple of years it has been low in volatility because of its large cash stake, but it spent mostof that by the end of last year, and it's still turned in a very good 2008.   Jensen's commentaries are fantastic, I actually like them better than Whitman's.   Simply put, I trust this guy with my money.   I wish the fund didn't reopen because they let cash climb to 40% before they closed it, which is way too high.   TASCX and TAVIX are at the top of my list for adding new money. 

BTW Norbert: many people (and all the Lebanese) speak French here in Dubai.   We have a spacious villa a couple of minutes walk from the beach, and you are very welcome to come visit us and sample Dubai's pleasures while doing research for your investment in TRAMX.