Hi Tim,

Diehards espousing Diehard? What a shock!!! ;o),

As Mel has offered, opinions are welcomed as long as the poster offers some support for the opinion. You don't think you should have to offer support for your arguments?

I guess we all have different views. You see Mel as oppressive, and I remember Mel as the one who stood behind me when others were calling me and others trolls and troublemakers, and chastised me for arguing with those such as Taylor, John Norstad, Larry Swedroe and Rick Ferri. Being a ‘Know-nothing Investor' and all, and these other fellows being what most called experts, I received quite a few negative replies, but Mel stood behind me, even after I gave him my signature Devil's Advocate argument over I-bonds.

I think Mel does get a little aggravated when folks come around pointing to Diehards as dogmatic and inflexible, but don't recognize the characteristics in themselves. Maybe he is human. Maybe he tires of the useless claims offering nothing for those "new investors" you seem to be concerned over.

Maybe when one of the managed fund advocates comes around offering ideas as to how to actually invest, or identify the superior fund manager in advance, Mel might back off.

So far, Petro is the only one that has offered an actual strategy. And, yes, I played Devil's Advocate on his offerings as well, but at least he gained my respect as he offered a plan, even if it was a newsletter, the Know-nothing Investor could follow.

You have not offered anything for anyone to consider. Mel has offered quite a lot over the years for the so called "new investors" to consider.

Do Mel, as well as me and maybe even yourself a favor. If you hate the Diehards (DH as you call them), do whatever it is you need to find peace. But, give us a break, so we can find a little peace as well.

Chin

Chin:

What on earth brought this rant on?  I haven't noticed anyone giving Mel a hard time.

Sam

Actually, Tim, the name of this forum is "Vanguard Diehards", and the forum description that M* applied to this forum starts out "Bogleheads unite...", since its focus is investing at Vanguard in the manner espoused by Jack Bogle.

There are M* forums for other specific mutual fund families. There's a generic "Mutual Funds" forum, and there are forums for active investors (Hands On). The idea behind the various forums is to provide distinct and focused online meeting places that bring together like-minded investors who can discuss their particular investing beliefs and learn from each other. Just as folks choose to attend a particular church that shares their beliefs, folks should also choose a forum where they feel most comfortable.

Finally, diehards.org is an entry portal to both Diehards forums (M* and Bogleheads).

Regards,

Mel

Chin>"You don't think you should have to offer support for your arguments?"

All the active investor hears is "show me proof", "ten years of out performance isn't  enough", "Bogle says", "with managers it's a guessing game", "can you predict future returns", performance chasing" etc, etc, etc.

 Moving money out of the mkt>", "how do you know when to get back in","timing" 

The list could go on and on, Chin and the end results would be the same for an DH response.  You know it's true, as does any visitor to this forum who honestly feels active funds are the way for them to invest.

Ya, Chin, you and the other DHs have all the answers, and you will refute and response that isn't taylor made to Bogle's concept of good investing.

Tim

Tim, you have raised this question numerous times. It is clearly inflammatory and is now getting a bit old. And yet when you have a serious question regarding your own problems, where do you for good information? Right here. Get over it, there is no controversy here.

Regards,

Paul 

Very true, Paul, I have received some great info, but does one have to agree with the Bogle's concept of investing to receive answers? Not once did I not thank, Mel, Taylor, Rick, etc for their timely responses. But have disagreed with the idea that  managed funds can't be accepted as good investments without all the BS that certian individuals expect. Mel, and Chin have made it quite plain that this forum is not about investing any way other than the Diehard way. I think Mel, Chin and a few others have made it quite plan that there is no controversy on this forum as long as you aline with the DH thinking. Think otherwise and use another forum.

Tim 

pkcrafter:

Tim, you have raised this question numerous times. It is clearly inflammatory and is now getting a bit old.

Honestly, your post is the inflammatory one.

snray:

Chin:

What on earth brought this rant on?  I haven't noticed anyone giving Mel a hard time.

Sam

See posting "The Rocky Road for Stars of '99"

tar42:

Very true, Paul, I have received some great info, but does one have to agree with the Bogle's concept of investing to receive answers? Not once did I not thank, Mel, Taylor, Rick, etc for their timely responses. But have disagreed with the idea that  managed funds can't be accepted as good investments without all the BS that certian individuals expect. Mel, and Chin have made it quite plain that this forum is not about investing any way other than the Diehard way. I think Mel, Chin and a few others have made it quite plan that there is no controversy on this forum as long as you aline with the DH thinking. Think otherwise and use another forum.

 

Tim 

Hi Tim:

There are lots of folks here who invest in managed funds, and they're certainly welcome here. However, they have reasons for doing what they do, and they're able to clearly state and explain why and how they handle their investments when someone asks. On the other hand, you make statements, and when Chin or someone asks you how/why you make your decisions, you start whining about how nasty the Diehards treat you. Huge difference.

A few examples of Diehards who post here on a regular basis that don't walk the Diehards line include Billperk, Petrocelli and Retired@48. Each marches to a different drummer, but they're able to cleary explain why/how they invest the way they do when asked. Remember, this is a discussion forum, so your posts are open for discussion. Rather than discuss and explain your investing methods, though, you get defensive and start these types of silly posts when anyone asks you questions. Can't you see the difference? If not, we certainly can't help you.

Bottom Line: Stop whining and start discussing investing.

Regards,

Mel

chinwhisker:

I think Mel does get a little aggravated when folks come around pointing to Diehards as dogmatic and inflexible, but don't recognize the characteristics in themselves. Maybe he is human. Maybe he tires of the useless claims offering nothing for those "new investors" you seem to be concerned over.

Who died and bequeathed these boards to Mel?

KCallie:

chinwhisker:

I think Mel does get a little aggravated when folks come around pointing to Diehards as dogmatic and inflexible, but don't recognize the characteristics in themselves. Maybe he is human. Maybe he tires of the useless claims offering nothing for those "new investors" you seem to be concerned over.

Who died and bequeathed these boards to Mel?

Another outsider heard from! Looks like they're calling in reinforcements from the other forums!