bilperk:

Hi Chin:

This board is dying a slow and painful death.  I am suggesting a reason why I think it is; (1) the folks who think the board should work the way you do don't post here anymore, and (2) the folks who think the board might run better if it was just a general discussion about Vanguard Funds and Vanguard without it always becoming a "prove it" discussion won't come here until it has been demonstrated that the board has changed.

I can't say it any clearer than that.  You will either continue to post on  a board with 5 new posts per day, or the board will change, IMHO.

Hi Bill,

I must be honest. I would rather one post every five days that offers a good idea than a thousand posts a day spewing mindless garbage that can't be questioned.

As opposed to concerning over what M* might want, or what the forum should become, or what the Bogleheads board is, we need to talk about investing.

If M* wants to change the name of the board to Vanguard Funds, or put "Weinerheads, unite!" below the title, I'll honor the wishes of M* and/or the Weinerheads and leave.

Otherwise, I am here for the duration for anyone who wants to actually talk investing, and maybe learn a little something along the way, as opposed to follow some guru. I still like where I am, and am not going to be pushed out over the actions of either the Bogleheads or the Weinerheads; never have, never will.

It is my opinion all this talk about what the forum should be, or become, is a waste of time. Offer something worth considering, and those serious about investing will come back. If all that is going to be offered is what Weiner or some other guru offers, I'd just as soon no one bothered coming over here, and the forum was allowed to die a natural death.

I have never said it was a bad idea to invest in Wellington or Wellesley for those who did not care to take their knowledge to the next level. I would not say following Weiner's advice is bad for those who do not want to take their knowledge to the next level. However, I do not feel a need to back off and allow someone to say managed funds are best or Weiner is smarter without challenging these statements.

Quantity is no substitute for quality, and hurt feelings is no reason to hide the truth as we see it. If an individual does not have the gumption you and I had when we challenged the Diehards in our earlier days, they need to go to one of the forums that is less challenging as opposed to dummying down this one.

This forum is, or at least was, unique, in that it required an investor to think. If one does not want to think on their own without someone supporting them with one hand and robbing with the other, they can find probably a hundred or more online forums to fit the bill.

Please allow this forum to remain a Church of Reason as opposed to a Church of Faith.

What you think?

Chin

"What you think?"

I think we could, and should, have both.

"I have never said it was a bad idea to invest in Wellington or Wellesley for those who did not care to take their knowledge to the next level. I would not say following Weiner's advice is bad for those who do not want to take their knowledge to the next level."

Unfortunately, the above remark is the kind of condescending statement that causes most of the dissension here.  Since you don't really have a clue what Wiener's advice is, it also seem a little arrogant.

I'm here "for entertainment purposes only", to discuss investing of all types in general and light hearted way.  I'm not here to change the world, or prove that I can outwit and outlast every other poster who comes into my view..   

So, I've had my say.  And no one is asking YOU to change in any way. 

best,

Bill

Hi Chin and Bilperk!

Like a chipmunk sticking his head out of a ground hole to see if the woods is clear, I offer some common ground here.

First, no one disputes that there can't be challenges to posted items.  But my observations are in line with other posters that, at times, people get on a tangent discussing the merits of active vs. passive investing, etc.,  tilting thread themes too often. 

Secondly, certain posters like Petro and Chin are more dominate at least in terms of number of posts.  Chin, I suspect you lead the pack.  This is OK, (someone has to have the most) but such active participation can overly sway the direction posts take.

Lastly, I think this forum needs more posters...and I have observed the Weiner folks  being quite civil.

Chin, I have openly and privately stated I really enjoy your posts and work.  But there is room for all of us to back off a little and allow posts to stick to the OP's request in a more narrow sense.  My suggestion is that we do more of creating a separate, new post if we want to tilt or enlarge on a posted theme.  Creating a new thread allows those so inclined to join the discussion.  I have been hesitant to engage at times for fear of turning a thread.  A new post would allow full participation.

Just some thoughts...now this chipmonk is putting his head back down into the hole.

retired at 48

bilperk:

"I have never said it was a bad idea to invest in Wellington or Wellesley for those who did not care to take their knowledge to the next level. I would not say following Weiner's advice is bad for those who do not want to take their knowledge to the next level."

Unfortunately, the above remark is the kind of condescending statement that causes most of the dissension here.  Since you don't really have a clue what Wiener's advice is, it also seem a little arrogant.

Hi Bill,

I didn't mean it as condescending, but only stating it as I see it. To stop at Dan Weiner's, or anyone else's advice, which would include Jack Bogle, Taylor, Mel, Rick, Larry, William Bernstein, Bill Schultheis, and especially mine, would be faith based investing to the extent of which I feel fairly sure you would not accept. Are you saying you need to go no further in your investment considerations than what Dan Weiner offers?

Chin

retired at 48:

Chin, I have openly and privately stated I really enjoy your posts and work.  But there is room for all of us to back off a little and allow posts to stick to the OP's request in a more narrow sense.  My suggestion is that we do more of creating a separate, new post if we want to tilt or enlarge on a posted theme.  Creating a new thread allows those so inclined to join the discussion.  I have been hesitant to engage at times for fear of turning a thread.  A new post would allow full participation.

Hi Ret48,

Bill and I have been having our own conversation here, yes, but I don't think I turned the thread. I was answering to this;

Re: Dan Wiener and FFSA luapnoj 05-13-2008, 7:43 PM | Post #2517537

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vanbookie:

I am new to this forum.  I have some familarity with Vanguard but no indepth knowledge of the best performing funds.  I have about $175,000 to invest, sitting in the PMM fund at the moment.  I came across Dan Wiener's newsletter and would like to know what those on this board think of his advice?  Do some here follow his sample portfolios?  Has he offered good advice over the years?  Is a subscription to his newsletter worth $99/year?  Can i do just as well on my own with the advice offered here, or on the Boglehead board, and with advice from the trade rags?  Any advice is appreciated.  Thanks.

Hello Vanbookie,

I'm not a follower or subscriber to Dan Wiener's newsletter but I will offer some advice. Your statement "I have some familiarity with Vanguard but no indepth knowledge of the best performing funds" is an indication you may be inclined to performance chasing and looking to a newsletter to assist.

My advice is to learn about risk tolerance, asset allocation, and tax efficient fund placement before blindly following a newsletter. Books by John Bogle, Rick Ferri and others that can be found on the recommended reading lists here will help you form a sound basis for investment decisions. You may already be there (I can't tell from your post) and if so, then OK. Use that knowledge as the resource to make the decisions you face.

I have found in my experience that I want to know why I'm investing in a particular asset, why I'm allocating a certain percentage to that asset, and what the risk is with my overall portfolio. I doubt you can find that knowledge in a newsletter.

Jerry