Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
Beliavsky 
10-26-2008, 11:06 PM | Post #2584303 |  63 Replies

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iivL4c_3pck

Here is a transcript of a 2001 radio interview of Barack Obama where he advocates redistribution as reparations for slavery and other injustices towards "previously disposessed peoples". It is being discussed at Free Republic (great conservative forum) at http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2116027/posts and http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2116149/posts .

TRANSCRIPT:
MODERATOR: Good morning and welcome to Odyssey on WBEZ Chicago 91.5 FM and we’re joined by Barack Obama who is Illinois State Senator from the 13th district and senior lecturer in the law school at the University of Chicago.


OBAMA: If you look at the victories and failures of the civil rights movement and its litigation strategy in the court, I think where it succeeded was to vest formal rights in previously dispossessed peoples. So that I would now have the right to vote, I would now be able to sit at the lunch counter and order and as long as I could pay for it I’d be okay.
But the Supreme Court never ventured into the issues of redistribution of wealth and sort of more basic issues of political and economic justice in this society. And to that extent as radical as people tried to characterize the Warren court, it wasn’t that radical. It didn’t break free from the essential constraints that were placed by the founding fathers in the Constitution, at least as it’s been interpreted, and the Warren court interpreted it in the same way that generally the Constitution is a charter of negative liberties. It says what the states can’t do to you, it says what the federal government can’t do to you, but it doesn’t say what the federal government or the state government must do on your behalf. And that hasn’t shifted. One of the I think tragedies of the civil rights movement was because the civil rights movement became so court focused, I think that there was a tendency to lose track of the political and community organizing and activities on the ground that are able to put together the actual coalitions of power through which you bring about redistributed change and in some ways we still suffer from that.

MODERATOR: Let’s talk with Karen. Good morning, Karen, you’re on Chicago Public Radio.

KAREN: Hi. The gentleman made the point that the Warren court wasn’t terribly radical with economic changes. My question is, is it too late for that kind of reparative work economically and is that that the appropriate place for reparative economic work to take place – the court – or would it be legislation at this point?

OBAMA: Maybe I’m showing my bias here as a legislator as well as a law professor, but I’m not optimistic about bringing about major redistributive change through the courts. The institution just isn’t structured that way.
You just look at very rare examples during the desegregation era the court was willing to for example order changes that cost money to a local school district. The court was very uncomfortable with it. It was very hard to manage, it was hard to figure out. You start getting into all sorts of separation of powers issues in terms of the court monitoring or engaging in a process that essentially is administrative and takes a lot of time.
The court’s just not very good at it and politically it’s very hard to legitimize opinions from the court in that regard. So I think that although you can craft theoretical justifications for it legally. Any three of us sitting here could come up with a rational for bringing about economic change through the courts. 

63 Replies
Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-26-2008, 11:26 PM | Post #2584306
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One must first understand history to judge it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_Warren

BGF

Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 6:52 AM | Post #2584348
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Beliavski, I am not certain but that those might be the scariest words about Obama that I have seen.  Freely translated, he is saying the Warren Court was not activist enough to suit him - and that he is not sure the courts are really structured or intended to bring about, for example, economic change through the courts - but he would like to see it happen if he could.

Another little tidbit that should have received publicity earlier but never did.  

The big problem is, the majority is willing to vote for Obama to bring "change" but nobody knows exactly what he means by that.  We get to find out later.

MWL 

Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 7:25 AM | Post #2584353
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Not anything to add. It's out there. ACORN, Ayers, Wright, these are not departures from his character. It's who he is.
Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 9:23 AM | Post #2584419
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Ben Graham Fan:

One must first understand history to judge it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_Warren

BGF

There's no doubt Warren expanded the role of the federal government and expanded the role of the courts. If Obama wants to appoint people like Earl Warren, why should anyone support him? 

Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 9:34 AM | Post #2584425
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iivL4c_3pck

But the Supreme Court never ventured into the issues of redistribution of wealth...

...the Warren court, it wasn’t that radical. It didn’t break free from the essential constraints that were placed by the founding fathers in the Constitution...

 ... the Constitution...doesn’t say what the federal government...must do

One of the... tragedies of the civil rights movement was...to lose track of the... community organizing...activities...through which you bring about redistributed change...

...I’m not optimistic about bringing about major redistributive change through the courts...

 The court’s just not very good at it...

You start getting into all sorts of separation of powers issues... in a process that essentially is administrative...

 

Finally, out of his own mouth, when you peel back the rhetoric, you get at where is mind is. He didn't mean to, but he has revealed himself in a way that coincides with his response to Joe the Plumber.

1. Reparations - Obama began with injustices to black people, and the failure to redistribute America's wealth to them after segregation.(...look at the...failures of the civil rights movement...the issues of redistribution of wealth and... issues of...economic justice...).

2. The Constitution - Obama views our Constitution, not as a document to constrain government, but as a document to enforce government. Here, as a Harvard law "lecturer", not a professor as he contends, he has somewhere missed in all of his education the fact that our founding fathers recognized the we are all inherently free, and they imposed constraints on the government to ensure that freedom. Obama views the Constitution as a means to force us to do his bidding (... the Constitution...doesn’t say what the federal government...must do)

3.The Supreme Court - In order for government to do his bidding, Obama recognizes he must go around the Supreme Court ( It didn’t break free from the essential constraints that were placed by the founding fathers in the Constitution)

4. Redistribution of people's earnings - Since the Supreme Court won't do what he wants, and the Constitution gets in his way, Obama believes that political power is the way to get around them (...I’m not optimistic about bringing about major redistributive change through the courts...). He sees the Court as inefficient at doing what he believes is just a process of passing a law and administering the transfer of earnings from one group of people to another (You start getting into all sorts of separation of powers issues... in a process that essentially is administrative...).

 

Obama has some serious flaws in his understanding of our Republic. Or, quite possibly, he understands it, but wants to change what has preserved our freedoms and served us well for over two hundred years. Is this the "change" he speaks of? 

Mark

 

Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 10:24 AM | Post #2584457
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Hello Mark & All I haven't posted here in quite sometime (except one brief post last evening). So I haven't followed all the conversations about Obama. I've spent considerable time on our local newspaper forum. I live in Ohio. 

What is almarming and downright frighting is Obama supporters for lack of better description "don't care about his past or radical leftist ideology".  As Thomas Sowell quoted one of the Democrat poltical operatives "People don't come to Obama for what he's done; they come because of what they hope he can be". Personally, after much research of Obama's voting record, alliances with former communist groups, etc I have concluded his core beliefs are Marxist.  I have been soundly criticized for calling Obama a Marxist.  In fact on many occasions some repondents on the local forum (Gannett state forum) defend Marxism as more ideal than capitalism. Others are convinced we need more socialism in our country and not less.  

As I see it we are witnessing a socialisitic revolution from the radical left in our country. They believe this is their time to take control. And they are willing to use any means to achieve their objective including voter fraud (ACORN).  What is most alarming to me is the mainstream grassroots Democrats who support Obama even though he does not represent their values or ideology. If Obama is elected our country will never be the same. I fear for my kids and grandkids.

Mike 

Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 10:26 AM | Post #2584459
Hide

*waving hello to Mike B. from the Left Coast*

Hope you and yours are well.

;)

Hetty

Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 10:27 AM | Post #2584460
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HettyGreen:

*waving hello to Mike B. from the Left Coast*

Hope you and yours are well.

;)

Hetty

Hetty, you have the most intense discussions I have ever seen.

Are you working directly with the 15ID's?

What do you think of seeing the end of Israel when Obama is elected?

Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 10:36 AM | Post #2584468
Hide
jawn1221:
HettyGreen:

*waving hello to Mike B. from the Left Coast*

Hope you and yours are well.

;)

Hetty

Hetty, you have the most intense discussions I have ever seen.

Are you working directly with the 15ID's?

What do you think of seeing the end of Israel when Obama is elected?

1.  Thank you!

2.  No.

3.  Israel will survive and thrive.

;)

Hetty

Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 10:42 AM | Post #2584471
Hide

I came back, because I'm just overwhelmed with the depth of Hetty's discussions on politics.  I would never want to miss her insight.

You sure fit the profile of the 15ID's, with one exception, you never offer any political discussion.

Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 10:47 AM | Post #2584478
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Avginvestor:

I came back, because I'm just overwhelmed with the depth of Hetty's discussions on politics.  I would never want to miss her insight.

You sure fit the profile of the 15ID's, with one exception, you never offer any political discussion.

Always a pleasure to see you, Avg.

;)

Hetty

Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 10:54 AM | Post #2584481
Hide

Enough!

Hetty has more insight than some on these boards who feel the need to post a new thread every five seconds, eh?  The quantity of threads posted has never produced the effect that one really good thread has...think about it as you watch the board of threads with zero replies go by.

Lulu

Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 10:55 AM | Post #2584482
Hide
The stage is totally set for spreading your wealth. Pelosi is crowing about how many seats the Democrats will pick up this election. The Wash Post reports the Democrats are aiming for a 60 seat filibuster proof Senate. Get ready to spread.
Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 11:30 AM | Post #2584513
Hide
lulu4804:

Enough!

Hetty has more insight than some on these boards who feel the need to post a new thread every five seconds, eh?  The quantity of threads posted has never produced the effect that one really good thread has...think about it as you watch the board of threads with zero replies go by.

Lulu

Ta, Lulu.  

*now you're a marked woman*

;)

Hetty

Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 11:36 AM | Post #2584516
Hide
HettyGreen:
lulu4804:

Enough!

Hetty has more insight than some on these boards who feel the need to post a new thread every five seconds, eh?  The quantity of threads posted has never produced the effect that one really good thread has...think about it as you watch the board of threads with zero replies go by.

Lulu

Ta, Lulu.  

*now you're a marked woman*

;)

Hetty

Lulu,

you are soooooooooooooo right! 

Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 11:37 AM | Post #2584517
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The MSM will bury your find. LOL!

ML

Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 11:45 AM | Post #2584523
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And to that extent as radical as people tried to characterize the Warren court, it wasn’t that radical.

 

This is stunning. Obama thinks the Warren Court was not radical enough. This begs the question, what kind of person(s) would he nominate to be on the Supreme Court?

Mark

Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 11:48 AM | Post #2584527
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Do you mean that you have to ask?

You know exactly what he wants.  Control of the law  and Constitution through the courts to override the legistlative and Executive sections of the government.

Control is the issue.

Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 12:01 PM | Post #2584543
Hide

Most people who have replied on this thread understand the importance of this Obama interview, yet the original message is rated -3. Apparently Obama supporters are trying to suppress it by giving it low ratings, causing it to be displayed less prominently. Please give the original message a positive rating if you think it is important.

 

Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 12:10 PM | Post #2584550
Hide
The stage is totally set for spreading your wealth. Pelosi is crowing about how many seats the Democrats will pick up this election. The Wash Post reports the Democrats are aiming for a 60 seat filibuster proof Senate. Get ready to spread.

 
I agree, robandjeanne.  However, this problem may be self correcting.  Already there is a less wealth to "spread" than there was a few months ago.  This might be only the beginning.  If the new Democrat congress passes and President Obama approves into law a substantial increase in taxes and marginal tax rates (particularly on capital), and also some protectionist trade legislation to "protect American workers", there will soon be a whole lot less.
MWL
Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 12:17 PM | Post #2584554
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As Mark Russel commented (in the local newspaper):

Obama - the great half-white hope.....

 - Ron

BTW as a disclaimer - I'm for Mac.  He and I shared some "common ground".  Of course he was North of the DMZ, and I was South..... 

 

 

 

Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 12:25 PM | Post #2584561
Hide
mwleach:
The stage is totally set for spreading your wealth. Pelosi is crowing about how many seats the Democrats will pick up this election. The Wash Post reports the Democrats are aiming for a 60 seat filibuster proof Senate. Get ready to spread.

 
I agree, robandjeanne.  However, this problem may be self correcting.  Already there is a less wealth to "spread" than there was a few months ago.  This might be only the beginning.  If the new Democrat congress passes and President Obama approves into law a substantial increase in taxes and marginal tax rates (particularly on capital), and also some protectionist trade legislation to "protect American workers", there will soon be a whole lot less.
MWL

It's not the wealth itself that is important, it is the ideology.  Do you think it would stop there?

Our military could be at stake, the people, the high tech secrets, the advantages we have, that could be passed off in a second.

People that are somewhat comfortable after working their entire lives will be told, "that isn't fair, others aren't as comfortable as you", and then it really starts.

You look at this with tunnel vision, just up to the first step.

Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 12:30 PM | Post #2584565
Hide

It (the Warren Court) didn’t break free from the essential constraints that were placed by the founding fathers in the Constitution, at least as it’s been interpreted, and the Warren court interpreted it in the same way that generally the Constitution is a charter of negative liberties. It says what the states can’t do to you, it says what the federal government can’t do to you, but it  (the Constitution) doesn’t say what the federal government or the state government must do on your behalf.

 

This is perverted. He is saying the Supreme Court should have "broken free" from what the founding fathers placed into the Constitution. He is saying the Supreme Court should have overturned the Constitution, and its protections, to advance his agenda. He is saying that the "negatives", which are the restraints placed on government to protect us, should be replaced with "positives" which are what the government should do to us. This is standing our protections under the Constitution on its head. This is removing our protections in favor of an activist government that decides what it "must do on our behalf". This man is hard core socialist, and if this doesn't expose his motives and plans to you, nothing will.

Mark

Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 1:19 PM | Post #2584584
Hide

some non-knee jerk analysis of this :

 http://www.volokh.com/

Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 1:22 PM | Post #2584590
Hide
Avginvestor:
mwleach:
The stage is totally set for spreading your wealth. Pelosi is crowing about how many seats the Democrats will pick up this election. The Wash Post reports the Democrats are aiming for a 60 seat filibuster proof Senate. Get ready to spread.

 
I agree, robandjeanne.  However, this problem may be self correcting.  Already there is a less wealth to "spread" than there was a few months ago.  This might be only the beginning.  If the new Democrat congress passes and President Obama approves into law a substantial increase in taxes and marginal tax rates (particularly on capital), and also some protectionist trade legislation to "protect American workers", there will soon be a whole lot less.
MWL

It's not the wealth itself that is important, it is the ideology.  Do you think it would stop there?

Our military could be at stake, the people, the high tech secrets, the advantages we have, that could be passed off in a second.

People that are somewhat comfortable after working their entire lives will be told, "that isn't fair, others aren't as comfortable as you", and then it really starts.

You look at this with tunnel vision, just up to the first step.

 

Max,

I hear Obama's next step is a "wealth tax", a tax on the rich's net worth. Does that make you angry?

ML

 

Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 1:29 PM | Post #2584591
Hide
mldeerslayer:
Avginvestor:
mwleach:
The stage is totally set for spreading your wealth. Pelosi is crowing about how many seats the Democrats will pick up this election. The Wash Post reports the Democrats are aiming for a 60 seat filibuster proof Senate. Get ready to spread.

 
I agree, robandjeanne.  However, this problem may be self correcting.  Already there is a less wealth to "spread" than there was a few months ago.  This might be only the beginning.  If the new Democrat congress passes and President Obama approves into law a substantial increase in taxes and marginal tax rates (particularly on capital), and also some protectionist trade legislation to "protect American workers", there will soon be a whole lot less.
MWL

It's not the wealth itself that is important, it is the ideology.  Do you think it would stop there?

Our military could be at stake, the people, the high tech secrets, the advantages we have, that could be passed off in a second.

People that are somewhat comfortable after working their entire lives will be told, "that isn't fair, others aren't as comfortable as you", and then it really starts.

You look at this with tunnel vision, just up to the first step.

 

Max,

I hear Obama's next step is a "wealth tax", a tax on the rich's net worth. Does that make you angry?

ML

 

That makes me angry!!!!!!

July 29, 2008

5 Who Pays Taxes: The Concept of "Incidence," Part I

One of the least understood but most important concepts in tax is “incidence.”

If we impose a tax on A, it may be that A can pass the cost on to B. B may then be able to pass that cost on the C. And C may not be able to pass it on to anyone else. If so, we say that the “incidence” of the tax falls on C.

What this means is that A, nominally subject to the tax, may not ultimately bear the burden of the tax at all.

In 1990, for example, Congress enacted a 10% tax on luxury items – luxury cars, yachts, private planes, jewelry, and furs. The idea was to tax the “rich” without increasing top income tax rates.

What happened instead was that demand for items subject to the tax – yachts, for example – went down. To continue selling yachts, therefore, yachtmakers had to cut prices. In other words, they had to eat the tax. Yachtmakers, in turn, responded by cutting wages. It turned out that luxury yachts were generally made in small towns without employment alternatives. So when yachtmakers cut wages, workers had no other place to go. They had to accept the pay cuts.

Bottom line: the cost of this so-called “luxury” tax ended up being borne primarily by low-income workers.

 

Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 1:40 PM | Post #2584596
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Beliavsky:

Here is a transcript of a 2001 radio interview of Barack Obama where he advocates redistribution as reparations for slavery and other injustices towards "previously disposessed peoples".

I can't seem to find his advocacy of redistribution as reparations for slavery. Can you point this out to me? 

Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 1:54 PM | Post #2584601
Hide
PRESSmUP:
Beliavsky:

Here is a transcript of a 2001 radio interview of Barack Obama where he advocates redistribution as reparations for slavery and other injustices towards "previously disposessed peoples".

I can't seem to find his advocacy of redistribution as reparations for slavery. Can you point this out to me? 

 

 

1. Reparations - Obama began with injustices to black people, and the failure to redistribute America's wealth to them after segregation.(...look at the...failures of the civil rights movement...the issues of redistribution of wealth and... issues of...economic justice...).

 

You have to cut through a lot of rhetoric to get to the subjects and predicates of his sentences, but it is there. This is not as surprising as his means to carry out his policies. He wants to do an end around the Supreme Court because it becomes too messy with such minutia as "separation of powers". He thinks redistributing our earnings should be an "administrative" task.

Mark

Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 2:13 PM | Post #2584610
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Mark,

They passed a law in '64 to give those who ain't got a little more.

But it only gets so far.

ML

Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 2:37 PM | Post #2584624
Hide
PRESSmUP:

some non-knee jerk analysis of this :

 http://www.volokh.com/

thanks for the link. dense reading, but well worth it.  particularly the last part of the above-referenced discussion:

"...What I don't understand is why this is surprising, or interesting enough to be headlining Drudge [UPDATE: Beyond the fact that Drudge's headline suggests, wrongly, that Obama states that the Supreme Court should have ordered the redistribution of income; as Orin says, his views on the subject, beyond that it was an error to promote this agenda in historical context, are unclear.]. At least since the passage of the first peacetime federal income tax law about 120 years ago, redistribution of wealth has been a (maybe the) primary item on the left populist/progressive/liberal agenda, and has been implicitly accepted to some extent by all but the most libertarian Republicans as well. Barack Obama is undoubtedly liberal, and his background is in political community organizing in poor communities. Is it supposed to be a great revelation that Obama would like to see wealth more "fairly" distributed than it is currently?

It's true that most Americans, when asked by pollsters, think that it's emphatically not the government's job to redistribute wealth. But are people so stupid as to not recognize that when politicians talk about a "right to health care," or "equalizing educational opportunities," or "making the rich pay a fair share of taxes," or "ensuring that all Americans have the means to go to college," and so forth and so on, that they are advocating the redistribution of wealth? Is it okay for a politician to talk about the redistribution of wealth only so long as you don't actually use phrases such as "redistribution" or "spreading the wealth," in which case he suddenly becomes "socialist"? If so, then American political discourse, which I never thought to be especially elevated, is in even a worse state than I thought."

no kidding...

 

Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 2:47 PM | Post #2584628
Hide
Mark49:
PRESSmUP:
Beliavsky:

I can't seem to find his advocacy of redistribution as reparations for slavery. Can you point this out to me? 


1. Reparations - Obama began with injustices to black people, and the failure to redistribute America's wealth to them after segregation.(...look at the...failures of the civil rights movement...the issues of redistribution of wealth and... issues of...economic justice...).

 You have to cut through a lot of rhetoric to get to the subjects and predicates of his sentences, but it is there. This is not as surprising as his means to carry out his policies. He wants to do an end around the Supreme Court because it becomes too messy with such minutia as "separation of powers". He thinks redistributing our earnings should be an "administrative" task.

Please forward the link to the above. My guess is.....Obama never advocated reparations in this discussion as he has voiced his opposition to this in the past. What you presented appears to be someone's interpretation.

Am I right? 

Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 2:54 PM | Post #2584633
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One of the I think tragedies of the civil rights movement was because the civil rights movement became so court focused, I think that there was a tendency to lose track of the political and community organizing and activities on the ground that are able to put together the actual coalitions of power through which you bring about redistributed change and in some ways we still suffer from that.

 

Taxing for the common good is far different than taxing one group to give to another. "Spreading the wealth" is socialism, and Obama has made it clear that is what he believes. There is no "right to health care". Find that right for me in the Constitution. It is impossible unless you have your liberal dictionary that lets words mean whatever you want them to mean. Who decides what someone's "fair share" is? A politician. How is that a right? Ensuring that all Americans can go to college is a right? Where? Does that include the mentally impaired? And on and on are the "rights" liberals have found in their dictionaries. 

Obama is a socialist, and his view of the Constitution would take away any protections it affords. "If so, then American political discourse, which I never thought to be especially elevated, is in even a worse state than I thought." I couldn't agree more, but for different reasons.

Mark

Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 3:29 PM | Post #2584656
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peggytex:
PRESSmUP:

some non-knee jerk analysis of this :

 http://www.volokh.com/

thanks for the link. dense reading, but well worth it. 

I figured that the last week or so of the campaign would entail some race-baiting, but I just wasn't sure what form it would come in. 

Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 3:37 PM | Post #2584663
Hide
PRESSmUP:
peggytex:
PRESSmUP:

some non-knee jerk analysis of this :

 http://www.volokh.com/

thanks for the link. dense reading, but well worth it. 

I figured that the last week or so of the campaign would entail some race-baiting, but I just wasn't sure what form it would come in. 

 

 

Where's the race baiting, Press?  Obama's words are race baiting? He's the one talking about transferring wealth to the African American community for "economic justice" after desegregation,and to do so outside the Courts. Is he race baiting?

Mark

Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 3:41 PM | Post #2584667
Hide
Mark49:
PRESSmUP:
peggytex:
PRESSmUP:

some non-knee jerk analysis of this :

 http://www.volokh.com/

thanks for the link. dense reading, but well worth it. 

I figured that the last week or so of the campaign would entail some race-baiting, but I just wasn't sure what form it would come in. 


Where's the race baiting, Press? 

The initial post, and your comments indicated that Obama called for reparations. That is race baiting if not true.

If Obama did call for that, please provide a link to his words and I will take back my accusation. 

Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 3:45 PM | Post #2584670
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First a wave back at you Hetty if you are still listening in. Obama's interview and comments about "socializing the constitution" is simply an extension of black liberation theology.  I remain unconvinced Obama's core beliefs of his former church and past alliances with the radical left will change if elected.  In fact I am convinced Obama will govern considerably more left than his currrent more moderate speech.

Mike

Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 3:54 PM | Post #2584677
Hide
PRESSmUP:
Mark49:
PRESSmUP:
peggytex:
PRESSmUP:

some non-knee jerk analysis of this :

 http://www.volokh.com/

thanks for the link. dense reading, but well worth it. 

I figured that the last week or so of the campaign would entail some race-baiting, but I just wasn't sure what form it would come in. 


Where's the race baiting, Press? 

The initial post, and your comments indicated that Obama called for reparations. That is race baiting if not true.

If Obama did call for that, please provide a link to his words and I will take back my accusation. 

 

 

If you look at the victories and failures of the civil rights movement and its litigation strategy in the court, I think where it succeeded was to vest formal rights in previously dispossessed peoples. So that I would now have the right to vote, I would now be able to sit at the lunch counter and order and as long as I could pay for it I’d be okay.
But the Supreme Court never ventured into the issues of redistribution of wealth and sort of more basic issues of political and economic justice in this society. And to that extent as radical as people tried to characterize the Warren court, it wasn’t that radical. It didn’t break free from the essential constraints that were placed by the founding fathers in the Constitution, at least as it’s been interpreted, and the Warren court interpreted it in the same way that generally the Constitution is a charter of negative liberties. It says what the states can’t do to you, it says what the federal government can’t do to you, but it doesn’t say what the federal government or the state government must do on your behalf. And that hasn’t shifted. One of the I think tragedies of the civil rights movement was because the civil rights movement became so court focused, I think that there was a tendency to lose track of the political and community organizing and activities on the ground that are able to put together the actual coalitions of power through which you bring about redistributed change and in some ways we still suffer from that. 

 

Now, please show me which poster is "race baiting".

Mark

Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 4:43 PM | Post #2584715
Hide
Mark49:
PRESSmUP:
Mark49:
PRESSmUP:
peggytex:
PRESSmUP:

some non-knee jerk analysis of this :

 http://www.volokh.com/

thanks for the link. dense reading, but well worth it. 

I figured that the last week or so of the campaign would entail some race-baiting, but I just wasn't sure what form it would come in. 


Where's the race baiting, Press? 

The initial post, and your comments indicated that Obama called for reparations. That is race baiting if not true.

If Obama did call for that, please provide a link to his words and I will take back my accusation. 

 

 

If you look at the victories and failures of the civil rights movement and its litigation strategy in the court, I think where it succeeded was to vest formal rights in previously dispossessed peoples. So that I would now have the right to vote, I would now be able to sit at the lunch counter and order and as long as I could pay for it I’d be okay.
But the Supreme Court never ventured into the issues of redistribution of wealth and sort of more basic issues of political and economic justice in this society. And to that extent as radical as people tried to characterize the Warren court, it wasn’t that radical. It didn’t break free from the essential constraints that were placed by the founding fathers in the Constitution, at least as it’s been interpreted, and the Warren court interpreted it in the same way that generally the Constitution is a charter of negative liberties. It says what the states can’t do to you, it says what the federal government can’t do to you, but it doesn’t say what the federal government or the state government must do on your behalf. And that hasn’t shifted. One of the I think tragedies of the civil rights movement was because the civil rights movement became so court focused, I think that there was a tendency to lose track of the political and community organizing and activities on the ground that are able to put together the actual coalitions of power through which you bring about redistributed change and in some ways we still suffer from that. 

 

Now, please show me which poster is "race baiting".

Mark

Both you and the original poster are race baiting by specifically saying that Obama calls for reparations for slavery. He does no such thing.



 

 

Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 4:54 PM | Post #2584719
Hide
PRESSmUP:
Mark49:
PRESSmUP:
Mark49:
PRESSmUP:
peggytex:
PRESSmUP:

some non-knee jerk analysis of this :

 http://www.volokh.com/

thanks for the link. dense reading, but well worth it. 

I figured that the last week or so of the campaign would entail some race-baiting, but I just wasn't sure what form it would come in. 


Where's the race baiting, Press? 

The initial post, and your comments indicated that Obama called for reparations. That is race baiting if not true.

If Obama did call for that, please provide a link to his words and I will take back my accusation. 

 

 

If you look at the victories and failures of the civil rights movement and its litigation strategy in the court, I think where it succeeded was to vest formal rights in previously dispossessed peoples. So that I would now have the right to vote, I would now be able to sit at the lunch counter and order and as long as I could pay for it I’d be okay.
But the Supreme Court never ventured into the issues of redistribution of wealth and sort of more basic issues of political and economic justice in this society. And to that extent as radical as people tried to characterize the Warren court, it wasn’t that radical. It didn’t break free from the essential constraints that were placed by the founding fathers in the Constitution, at least as it’s been interpreted, and the Warren court interpreted it in the same way that generally the Constitution is a charter of negative liberties. It says what the states can’t do to you, it says what the federal government can’t do to you, but it doesn’t say what the federal government or the state government must do on your behalf. And that hasn’t shifted. One of the I think tragedies of the civil rights movement was because the civil rights movement became so court focused, I think that there was a tendency to lose track of the political and community organizing and activities on the ground that are able to put together the actual coalitions of power through which you bring about redistributed change and in some ways we still suffer from that. 

 

Now, please show me which poster is "race baiting".

Mark

Both you and the original poster are race baiting by specifically saying that Obama calls for reparations for slavery. He does no such thing.



 

 

 

 

Baloney. Read the man's words.

Mark

Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 5:01 PM | Post #2584722
Hide
Mark49:
PRESSmUP:
Mark49:
PRESSmUP:
Mark49:
PRESSmUP:
peggytex:
PRESSmUP:


 


Both you and the original poster are race baiting by specifically saying that Obama calls for reparations for slavery. He does no such thing.


Baloney. Read the man's words.

I am. I don't see where he calls for reparations for slavery. That is a dog-whistle for race-baiters. I'm sure this came from FreeRepublic, am I right? If so, that would explain everything.

Please point to where he calls for reparations for slavery in this article. Both you and the original poster have indicated this. Where is it?

Or is it not there?

Are you just using that term as a dog whistle? 

 

Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 5:24 PM | Post #2584730
Hide

  http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=71043

"I consistently believe that when it comes to whether it's Native Americans or African-American issues or reparations, the most important thing for the U.S. government to do is not just offer words, but offer deeds," he said.

The issue of reparations to African-Americans for the historic slave trade or Native Americans for the "invasion" by Europeans periodically has been raised. Several years ago a lawsuit was filed claiming damages for labor at a current value of $1.4 trillion.

At Renew America, Michael Gaynor also publicly wondered about Obama's statements to a recent "Meet the Press."

Obama said, "The biggest problem that we have in terms of race relations, I think, is dealing with the legacy of past discrimination which has resulted in extreme disparities in terms of poverty, in terms of wealth and in terms of income. Our inner cities are a legacy of what happened in the past. And the question is less assigning blame or rooting out active racism, because that's not the reason that those inner cities are in such bad shape, but rather figuring out are we willing to make the investments to deal with that past history so we can move forward to a brighter future? And that involves investing in early childhood education, fixing the schools in those communities, being willing to work in terms of job retraining. And those are serious investments."

Asked Gaynor, "Is 'serious investments' code for 'reparations'? And how expensive and devastating would Obama's income redistribution policy be?"

 

You are in denial, Press. I've never though about his positions on this until I read the original article. Obama is very clear, tying desegregation to "redistributed change". I posted another where he says  " whether it's Native Americans or African-American issues or reparations, the most important thing for the U.S. government to do is not just offer words, but offer deeds,"

Mark

 

Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 5:37 PM | Post #2584735
Hide
Mark49:

  You are in denial, Press. I've never though about his positions on this until I read the original article. Obama is very clear, tying desegregation to "redistributed change". I posted another where he says  " whether it's Native Americans or African-American issues or reparations, the most important thing for the U.S. government to do is not just offer words, but offer deeds,"

In how many possible ways can you not answer my question?

He never calls for reparations for slavery. By saying so is race baiting in its most blatant form. You are trying to explain away both your and the original poster's statements that indicated he called for reparations.

Now....you may want to interpret his comments as calling for reparations, but that's not what he said.

To indicate he called for reparations is indeed race baiting. Why don't you just say he wants to steal your white women?

This came from FreeRepublic didn't it? Did they file one of their famous "faux-military after-action reports" when this was posted?
 

Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 6:08 PM | Post #2584749
Hide
Beliavsky:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iivL4c_3pck

Here is a transcript of a 2001 radio interview of Barack Obama where he advocates redistribution as reparations for slavery and other injustices towards "previously disposessed peoples". It is being discussed at Free Republic (great conservative forum) at http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2116027/posts and http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2116149/posts .

TRANSCRIPT:
MODERATOR: Good morning and welcome to Odyssey on WBEZ Chicago 91.5 FM and we’re joined by Barack Obama who is Illinois State Senator from the 13th district and senior lecturer in the law school at the University of Chicago.


OBAMA: If you look at the victories and failures of the civil rights movement and its litigation strategy in the court, I think where it succeeded was to vest formal rights in previously dispossessed peoples. So that I would now have the right to vote, I would now be able to sit at the lunch counter and order and as long as I could pay for it I’d be okay.
But the Supreme Court never ventured into the issues of redistribution of wealth and sort of more basic issues of political and economic justice in this society. And to that extent as radical as people tried to characterize the Warren court, it wasn’t that radical. It didn’t break free from the essential constraints that were placed by the founding fathers in the Constitution, at least as it’s been interpreted, and the Warren court interpreted it in the same way that generally the Constitution is a charter of negative liberties. It says what the states can’t do to you, it says what the federal government can’t do to you, but it doesn’t say what the federal government or the state government must do on your behalf. And that hasn’t shifted. One of the I think tragedies of the civil rights movement was because the civil rights movement became so court focused, I think that there was a tendency to lose track of the political and community organizing and activities on the ground that are able to put together the actual coalitions of power through which you bring about redistributed change and in some ways we still suffer from that.

MODERATOR: Let’s talk with Karen. Good morning, Karen, you’re on Chicago Public Radio.

KAREN: Hi. The gentleman made the point that the Warren court wasn’t terribly radical with economic changes. My question is, is it too late for that kind of reparative work economically and is that that the appropriate place for reparative economic work to take place – the court – or would it be legislation at this point?

OBAMA: Maybe I’m showing my bias here as a legislator as well as a law professor, but I’m not optimistic about bringing about major redistributive change through the courts. The institution just isn’t structured that way.
You just look at very rare examples during the desegregation era the court was willing to for example order changes that cost money to a local school district. The court was very uncomfortable with it. It was very hard to manage, it was hard to figure out. You start getting into all sorts of separation of powers issues in terms of the court monitoring or engaging in a process that essentially is administrative and takes a lot of time.
The court’s just not very good at it and politically it’s very hard to legitimize opinions from the court in that regard. So I think that although you can craft theoretical justifications for it legally. Any three of us sitting here could come up with a rational for bringing about economic change through the courts. 

And then Biden complains when they ask about obama's marxist background.

Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 6:17 PM | Post #2584753
Hide
PRESSmUP:
Mark49:

  You are in denial, Press. I've never though about his positions on this until I read the original article. Obama is very clear, tying desegregation to "redistributed change". I posted another where he says  " whether it's Native Americans or African-American issues or reparations, the most important thing for the U.S. government to do is not just offer words, but offer deeds,"

In how many possible ways can you not answer my question?

He never calls for reparations for slavery. By saying so is race baiting in its most blatant form. You are trying to explain away both your and the original poster's statements that indicated he called for reparations.

Now....you may want to interpret his comments as calling for reparations, but that's not what he said.

To indicate he called for reparations is indeed race baiting. Why don't you just say he wants to steal your white women?

This came from FreeRepublic didn't it? Did they file one of their famous "faux-military after-action reports" when this was posted?
 

 

 

I see no need to try to answer anything for you, Press, because you aren't even reading and comprehending what's been posted.

Mark

 

Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 6:38 PM | Post #2584762
Hide

I read quite well Mark, but I'm not sure I can extend the same courtesy to you on this point.

It's apparent from your lack of responsiveness that Obama never asked for reparations for slavery. You may disagree with the sum total of Obama's words as recently reported. That's okay.

To say he supports reparations for slavery is not okay, as this is blatantly false and is race baiting. 

Frankly, I'm surprised that you are so steadfast on this point. 

Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 6:41 PM | Post #2584764
Hide
The Far Left and Far Right know exactly who Obama is, it's the center who don't have a clue.
Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 7:30 PM | Post #2584805
Hide
Avginvestor:

I came back, because I'm just overwhelmed with the depth of Hetty's discussions on politics.  I would never want to miss her insight.

You sure fit the profile of the 15ID's, with one exception, you never offer any political discussion.

Max, you never left to begin with!

Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 7:37 PM | Post #2584812
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At some point, will the Left actually have something to say on the subject at hand?
Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 7:42 PM | Post #2584817
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EagleTed:
At some point, will the Left actually have something to say on the subject at hand?

Not under the banner of the initial post on this thread. If you start another thread, yes. 

Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 7:48 PM | Post #2584820
Hide
PRESSmUP:

EagleTed:
At some point, will the Left actually have something to say on the subject at hand?

Not under the banner of the initial post on this thread. If you start another thread, yes. 

And precisely what is it about "Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)" that would render you helpless to respond?

Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 8:05 PM | Post #2584835
Hide
scanning my responses to this thread should give you some indication Ted.
Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 9:00 PM | Post #2584887
Hide

I am going to try and leave this short and sweet. Personally, I think the whole thing has gotten out of hand. So what is my take:

I reviewed what was posted, I listened to the radio broadcast. Then I thought without passing judgment on anything that was said. First impression, what is the context of the conversation. Given that the Warren court was past tense it is obvious we are looking back in time. So then we jog the memory to pour on some perspective. Approx 1870 blacks are first granted their freedom, in 1896 supreme court approves "separate but equal". 1964 civil rights act passes, first real step to whites and blacks having an equal footing. Do I believe that since 1964 all of a sudden everything was fine, no. Discrimination continued until the mid-80's, only it was done in a more politically correct way. So considering when the first colonies were established in the US with slave labor, that is 200 years of murder, rape, hangings, beatings, lack of rights, general discrimination and lack real opportunity in every real sense of the word. I would expect most of us having this conversation can remember the days when the N word was used for no other reason then to cause pain. How many of us were around to see laws broken regarding segregation, with no action to do the right thing until courts forced enforcing the laws. And that assumes the courts even got a chance to hear the case, often times police did not arrest offenders. Those we radical times when you compare them to today.

So if someone was talking with me historically would I say that the courts could have gone further. Absolutely! Do I think every black person in America could have gotten a check, of course not. However, consider this... if someone took my son and beat him or worse today I would not only get to see that person in jail, but I also would be able to take them to the cleaners and wipe out the families wealth. I never heard of that happening in the 60's when a black man/woman died via a hate crime.

While Obama's speech was recent the context of his statements were actions that could or should have taken place some years ago. And in the context of how black men and women were treated in that day and age I wouldn't disagree. I thank Press for the link discussing Obama's current views on the matter. I think it goes to show that he believes that in the year times we do not need a "radical" on the bench as we might have during the civil rights movement. It was only radical because at that time in our history Blacks did not get fair treatment in our court systems.

See, my family is from the south.. so maybe i saw more bad then good in the areas I lived in. I can tell you a lot of innocent black men went to jail because of their skin color more so then any real evidence. White or Black I think anyone with half a brain knows once a cycle is started it is hard to break.

Overall, I think we have come a long way since then. However, this election cycle has lead me to believe that I may not be right. When politicians or their supporters make efforts to bring fear into a campaigning through racial, religious or other undertones I find that quiet bothersome. For those that want to argue, Mike Scott is a prime example. I know him and respect his work as Sheriff for Lee County, Fl. He has done a great job. I also know that his during his support for McCain/Palin during a rally he addressed Obama using his middle name. As a supporter of Mike Scott I was taken back. Never in my life would I expect a Sheriff in uniform to try and use word association in that fashion. He can hide behind what he did, and I like to believe he got carried away in the moment as I believe him to be a man of better judgment that he used at that moment. I will say, however, that tarnished his reputation with me and I would not be surprised if it hurts him in the black community. That said, in some cases the information may be relevant.. but it has not taken long for those topics to lose their relevance and take on a life of their own. How many times do we need to hear Muslim, or Arab, or Terrorist or Socialist about a man who really appears to want to do something good for this country. We might not have to agree with his thoughts, but we sure as hell can show him some respect.

I encourage all of you to print off some of the post made hear on this board. Save them, and then when we are in a different time and space and tensions are not so high... reread. I think we all might find things got out of hand!

With that I want to issue an apology. During the last election cycle I never stood up against the John Kerry smears. The man went to war.. something most of us will never have to do. It was a war that divided our country as we fought communism. Men were asked to go to war that did not want to be there, still they risked their lives for our "freedom". I don't recall ever saying anything bad about Kerry when it comes to his war record. But I apologize for sitting on the sidelines and saying nothing at all. It nothing to influence why I voted for Bush, but I think the tactic speaks for itself as low class.

BGF  

Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 9:09 PM | Post #2584895
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Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 9:11 PM | Post #2584897
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A little PS - for those of you that have been able to debate about the topics and issues related to this election thank you. It is your well though out posts that keep me coming back each night.

BGF

Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 9:24 PM | Post #2584913
Hide

mr. BGF:

thank you.  Just... thank you.

 

peggy in sf 

 

 

Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-27-2008, 9:42 PM | Post #2584927
Hide
What scares me is why we are only hearing about Obama's socialism now, 9 days before the election. This interview was done in 2001. How has Obama kept it quiet until now? What else is he keeping quiet? Obama lovers are so blind many would say "what difference would it make if he was a Muslim". Well they're right, it may not make a difference unless he supported radical Islam. One fact leads to another, and we seem to have few facts about Obama that he can't joke his way out of.
Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-28-2008, 10:53 AM | Post #2585123
Hide
I just want to make sure everyone is aware that this "interview" is actually soundbits from FOUR different interviews that Obama did with Odyssey in 2001 covering several different topics.  Many of these "socialist" quotes are taken completely out of context.  While I'm aware this is a fun game of people to put words into mouths by taking quotes out of context and placing them so they imply different things, I think it's quite poor reporting to post this "interview" as a fact.  I understand that it is difficult to find the entire interview online.  That is, of course, unless you go to the station (http://apps.wbez.org/blog/?p=639) where they actually have the ENTIRE interviews (note the plural) and you can see that he is speaking on things regarding the Court and Civil Rights; Slavery and the Constitution; The Right to Vote and Redistricting.  Perhaps you can stick with reporting facts in the future?
Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-28-2008, 12:23 PM | Post #2585157
Hide

Arrock12,

Thanks for the link. The original post is actually two excerpts from the first interview, which is a discussion of three people, one of which is Barack Obama, along with a moderator. I listened to it in its entirety. Nothing was taken out of context. There is no distortion of meaning when you read the two excerpts. There is no implication of different meanings. In fact, it is clear that the caller's (Karen's) question and Baracks's answer is the point of the post. The first part of the post is to give context to the caller's question.

In listening to the words, rather than reading, the phone call question from Karen (in the original post) stands out.

Karen: The gentleman (Barack Obama) made the point that the Warren court wasn’t terribly radical with economic changes. My question is, is it too late for that kind of reparative work economically and is that that the appropriate place for reparative economic work to take place – the court – or would it be legislation at this point? 

 

This question is in reference to the first part of the original post where Obama discusses the Warren Court, where he says:

So that I would now have the right to vote, I would now be able to sit at the lunch counter and order and as long as I could pay for it I’d be okay. But the Supreme Court never ventured into the issues of redistribution of wealth and sort of more basic issues of political and economic justice in this society.

 

Obama's original statement was about redistribution of wealth. Karen, in her question, refers to Obama's discussion of reparative work. Obama answers with reference to redistributive change. They are talking about the same thing

Mark

 

Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-28-2008, 5:50 PM | Post #2585337
Hide

OBAMA: If you look at the victories and failures of the civil rights movement and its litigation strategy in the court, I think where it succeeded was to vest formal rights in previously dispossessed peoples. So that I would now have the right to vote, I would now be able to sit at the lunch counter and order and as long as I could pay for it I’d be okay.
But the Supreme Court never ventured into the issues of redistribution of wealth and sort of more basic issues of political and economic justice in this society. And to that extent as radical as people tried to characterize the Warren court, it wasn’t that radical. It didn’t break free from the essential constraints that were placed by the founding fathers in the Constitution, at least as it’s been interpreted, and the Warren court interpreted it in the same way that generally the Constitution is a charter of negative liberties. It says what the states can’t do to you, it says what the federal government can’t do to you, but it doesn’t say what the federal government or the state government must do on your behalf. And that hasn’t shifted. One of the I think tragedies of the civil rights movement was because the civil rights movement became so court focused, I think that there was a tendency to lose track of the political and community organizing and activities on the ground that are able to put together the actual coalitions of power through which you bring about redistributed change and in some ways we still suffer from that.

I understand why the Left would want to make long dissertations on Jim Crow, etc., nonetheless, they ignore the core of the statement, and we can only suppose, the core of Obama. Activist courts, wealth redistribution, Socialism at it's core.

Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-28-2008, 6:08 PM | Post #2585342
Hide

Mark,

Your post is enlightening in that I can see how the Freepers came up with their statements that Obama supports reparations for slavery.

I wonder if they realize that "reparative work" spoken by a questioner does not infer this? While this shares a Latin derivative, that would be about as close as you can come.


Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-28-2008, 6:18 PM | Post #2585348
Hide

Maybe Obama should never have been a law professor at Chicago.  Professors have a habit of ruminating over concepts like "distributive justice", especially if they've been teaching the philosophy of people like John Rawls.  They have a habit of thinking in terms of "what-if?"  Obama's spun these hypotheses before -- "desperate people cling to religion," etc.  He's doubly cursed.  Not only was he a professor in 2001 but his mother had always been an anthropologist.   It's the sign of an active imagination.  Americans are more inclined to applaud speeches that are empty of ideas, full of generalizations, and stir the emotions.

On the plus side, at least Obama's given the matter of taxation some thought.  Here's what a pollster has to say about MCain's position.

"The McCain campaign apparently has a new theme this week: attacking Obama for wanting to "spread the wealth." But it is not clear what that really means. Many Republicans have bitterly opposed the federal income tax since the 16th amendment was passed in 1913. Is McCain going to repeal the federal income tax? If so, how does he plan to finance the government? Or does he mean that the difference between the top rate of 39.6% under Bill Clinton and the top rate of 36% under George Bush is the difference between communism and capitalism? The purpose of the progressive federal income tax is to spread the wealth. That Democrats have supported a progressive income tax for decades is hardly news. Does McCain want to keep the tax but make it a flat tax (a la Steve Forbes)? No word on this. It seems this is just another desperate attempt to attack Obama rather than being a serious policy proposal for tax reform and it comes awfully late in the game. If McCain wanted to run on a platform of a flat tax, he certainly has had the opportunity, but until now he didn't bring up the subject."
Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-28-2008, 7:05 PM | Post #2585375
Hide
PRESSmUP:

Mark,

Your post is enlightening in that I can see how the Freepers came up with their statements that Obama supports reparations for slavery.

I wonder if they realize that "reparative work" spoken by a questioner does not infer this? While this shares a Latin derivative, that would be about as close as you can come.


 

 

Press, they were talking about reparations, but no one made it clear as to what form that would take. Obama made it clear that the Supreme Court, the Warren Court, was not very radical, in that it did not go after redistribution of wealth after desegregation. This is what prompted Karen's question, and she referenced what Obama said as reparative work. Obama answered her question, never correcting or questioning her reference as reparative, but calling it redistributive change.

 

Obama:   But the Supreme Court never ventured into the issues of redistribution of wealth and sort of more basic issues of political and economic justice in this society. And to that extent as radical as people tried to characterize the Warren court, it wasn’t that radical. It didn’t break free from the essential constraints that were placed by the founding fathers in the Constitution

One of the I think tragedies of the civil rights movement was because the civil rights movement became so court focused, I think that there was a tendency to lose track of the political and community organizing and activities on the ground that are able to put together the actual coalitions of power through which you bring about redistributed change and in some ways we still suffer from that

 

Caller (Karen):   The gentleman made the point that the Warren court wasn’t terribly radical with economic changes. My question is, is it too late for that kind of reparative work economically and is that that the appropriate place for reparative economic work to take place – the court – or would it be legislation at this point? 


Obama's answer:   I’m not optimistic about bringing about major redistributive change through the courts. The institution just isn’t structured that way. 

You start getting into all sorts of separation of powers issues in terms of the court monitoring or engaging in a process that essentially is administrative and takes a lot of time. 

 

 

Obama is very clear in his response. He is not optimistic about major redistributive change happening through the courts. He is pessimistic about it getting done through the courts. He thinks it should be legislative, as Karen suggested, and then it would be a simple matter of administration. But he is all for major redistributive change.

They were talking about the same thing, and it all began when Obama spoke about the failure of the Courts, after desegregation, to go after redistribution of wealth/reparative work/redistributive change for blacks. They spoke of the Court being behind "public opinion" in its rulings, as if it were understood that is what the Supreme Court does. I was shocked at the cavalier attitude they had about the purpose of the Court, as if it were understood by any idiot that the purpose of the Court was not to interpret the law, but to make the law. They referenced John Ashcroft many times, fearing that as Attorney General, he would not be "activist enough" in getting cases before the Courts.

What is becoming increasingly clear to me is that Obama believes in redistributing the economic earnings of Americans. He talks about change, redistributive change, redistributing wealth, and spreading the wealth. He spoke of reparations in the form of increases in money for education, totally avoidiing the reparations question in the Democratic primaries. I don't think he is being totally honest with Americans, and I don't think he ever will.

If you listen to the audio, and it lasts about an hour, you will see that the whole point of this is Karen's call and Obama's response. The first part of the post is to give the context and purpose of her call. Obama's response is what is revealing.

Mark

 

Re: Obama on redistribution (transcript of 2001 interview)
10-28-2008, 7:29 PM | Post #2585389
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Mark,

You and I will just need to agree to disagree on this.

A reparative change as described by a questioner, unanswered by Obama and relating to redistribution of wealth/reparative work/redistributive change for blacks does not signify his support for reparations for slavery.  To label it as such is not valid.

Curiously, several scholarly reviews of this exchange remarked that Obama held a rather conservative view of the courts and their role and authority.