Are Vanguard money market funds safe?
Cleaver 
09-16-2008, 4:30 PM | Post #2562779 |  23 Replies

I have some money in Vanguard's prime money market fund. With all the economic bad news lately, I am concerned for its safety. Is it as safe as a money market bank account? Thank you.

23 Replies
Re: Are Vanguard money market funds safe?
09-16-2008, 5:34 PM | Post #2562810
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Hi Cleaver,

FWIW, I don't think you can get much safer.

Chin

Re: Are Vanguard money market funds safe?
09-16-2008, 5:40 PM | Post #2562812
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I have a big rock in the yard.......safest place I can think of. There is room for more!

Ya VG's MM is pretty safe..............I invested in their MM when selling off some mutual fund and stock shares.

Re: Are Vanguard money market funds safe?
09-16-2008, 6:10 PM | Post #2562827
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Re: Are Vanguard money market funds safe?
09-16-2008, 6:25 PM | Post #2562833
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Re: Are Vanguard money market funds safe?
09-16-2008, 6:41 PM | Post #2562844
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cecasejr, great job of bring the news to this forum. We can ignore what's true. Events like this will pass in time I hope, but it's effects will be felt by most all of us.

Take care

Tim

Re: Are Vanguard money market funds safe?
09-16-2008, 7:01 PM | Post #2562856
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For now their TAX Free Money Market IS safer.......

t

Re: Are Vanguard money market funds safe?
09-16-2008, 8:57 PM | Post #2562902
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cecasejr:
 

"We are confident in the stability of Vanguard's money market funds," spokesman John Woerth said in an email. "Our largest money market fund is Vanguard Prime Money Market Fund (VMRXX: VMMXX, , ) , which currently holds more than half of its assets in Treasury and agency securities. In addition, Prime Money Market Fund and our other money market funds have no exposure to money market instruments issued by securities dealers, including distressed issuers like Lehman and AIG."

Re: Are Vanguard money market funds safe?
09-16-2008, 9:12 PM | Post #2562907
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Vanguard Admiral Treasury MM fund (VUSXX) invests solely in US Treasury obligations that are backed by the full faith and credit of the U.S. government. A little less interest per month but you have the added ironclad security of short-term Treasury bills.

Re: Are Vanguard money market funds safe?
09-18-2008, 11:21 AM | Post #2563681
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I followed Scott Burns advice  and moved into VSGBX..

has ck writting an little more $

 

Re: Are Vanguard money market funds safe?
09-18-2008, 12:04 PM | Post #2563710
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fredP:

Vanguard Admiral Treasury MM fund (VUSXX) invests solely in US Treasury obligations that are backed by the full faith and credit of the U.S. government. A little less interest per month but you have the added ironclad security of short-term Treasury bills.

And I believe that the  interest earned is deductible from state income taxes for those states with that tax.

Re: Are Vanguard money market funds safe?
09-19-2008, 8:55 PM | Post #2564502
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I too am concerned about the safety of MM funds. Right now I have moved about 25% from the Prime MM into CD's. On the other hand, my sister has her entire retirement nestegg in Prime MM fund. I'm wondering whether I should let her know about what is happening. She doesn't follow financial news, so has no idea of any current possible risk with her holdings.

 So it would seem the best move if one does it is to move into CD's which are insured. But one does lose some liquidity. As others mentioned , there is the Admiral Treasury MM fund. This would be the easiest move for her to make. It would be about $200K.

 Any comments or suggestions. Just wondered if others are making moves or just holding steady with Prime MM fund. Thanks.

 

 

Re: Are Vanguard money market funds safe?
09-19-2008, 9:46 PM | Post #2564528
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September 17, 2008

A word on Vanguard money market funds

The recent bankruptcy filing by Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. and widespread turbulence in the financial markets have prompted a number of questions about the impact on Vanguard funds, including money market funds.

Vanguard is confident in the stability of its money market funds, all of which are managed with the objective of maintaining a stable net asset value of $1 a share. Vanguard continues to manage its money market funds very conservatively and with extreme prudence, focusing on high quality, short-term money market instruments.

All of the investments in our money market funds are closely examined by our Fixed Income Group's highly skilled and experienced credit analysts. Analysts assess the quality of each underlying issuer through in-depth credit analysis and do not rely on agency credit ratings.

Our largest money market fund is Vanguard Prime Money Market Fund, which currently holds more than half of its assets in U.S. Treasury and federal agency securities. In addition, Prime Money Market Fund has no exposure to money market instruments issued by securities dealers, including Lehman Brothers. It also has no exposure to securities of AIG, the insurance concern that is being supported by loans from the federal government.

Holdings of Vanguard Prime Money Market Fund (as of 8/31/2008)
U.S. Treasury: 36%
U.S. Agency: 17%
Certificates of deposit: 32%
High-quality commercial paper: 14%
Repurchase agreements: 1%

 

https://personal.vanguard.com/us/VanguardViewsArticlePublic?ArticleJSP=/freshness/News_and_Views/news_ALL_moneymarket_09172008_ALL.jsp&src=NMC&returnLink=/freshness/News_and_Views/news_ALL_moneymarket_09172008_ALL.jsp

Re: Are Vanguard money market funds safe?
09-19-2008, 9:55 PM | Post #2564536
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September 19, 2008

Vanguard CEO offers perspective on challenging times

Over the last few days, we've seen rapid and profound changes to the financial system, with several major firms facing a financial crisis that's led to extraordinary intervention by the federal government. These historic developments have been accompanied by large swings in the market. In an interview, Vanguard Chief Executive Officer Bill McNabb discusses the recent volatility and how Vanguard investors have responded. He also explains how Vanguard is well-positioned to meet the challenges of the current environment.

We've seen a lot of volatility in the markets. What should investors be doing?

If you're an investor with a long-term time horizon and a balanced and diversified portfolio, the smartest "move" to make right now is probably to do nothing. It's important to have an investment plan—and just as important to be able to stick to that plan during good times and bad. If your goals, circumstances, or reasons for buying a fund haven't changed, then you probably shouldn't make changes to your portfolio.

There's no question—from an emotional standpoint, "doing nothing" can be difficult. Lately, it seems like the major indexes rise or fall a few percentage points—or more—almost every day. And we've seen some large and long-standing financial institutions collapse, get sold, or get rescued by the federal government.

But historically our system is remarkably resilient, and the regulators and policy-makers are very much involved in finding ways to address issues such as liquidity as the markets adjust. I'm confident that the financial system will stabilize at some point, and that process may well be under way now.

But history teaches us that selling in a panic—or letting your emotions drive your investment decisions—is often a recipe for disappointment.

Can you put the recent market turbulence in historical context?

While this subprime downturn has been a sort of protracted decline over the course of the past year or so, periods like the past couple of weeks still conjure some memories for me of the way people felt during and after the stock market crash of October 1987, when the market fell about 23% in a single day.

I was at Vanguard on that day and the days that followed. And so were many of my colleagues. We were on the phones, talking to clients about their concerns, answering questions. To many people, it felt like the financial markets would never recover.

It's important to remember that that crash—the largest single-day drop in stock market history—now barely even registers on the stock charts when you look at it 21 years later.

It's easier said than done, but right now, that's the kind of long-term perspective that can help investors get through this rocky period.

What's your take on the response from regulators and policy-makers?

Just this morning, the regulators released a number of initiatives to help stabilize and improve the markets. The details are very sketchy right now so it's hard to say for certain, but we're encouraged. We are studying these new initiatives and hopefully we'll have something to report back to all of our investors fairly shortly.

When will things start looking up?

That's a hard question to answer. Let's be frank: Investors are nervous. The stock market is jittery. And the economy is in a fragile state. The resolution to the situation probably won't happen overnight. But we will get through it.

The financial markets have hit rough patches before. We're in a rough patch right now. And we'll see rough patches in the future.

We get through them. We move on. The markets adjust.

And remember, if you're a regular investor during this choppy period, through your 401(k) plan or your IRA, you might find a little bit of solace in knowing that at least some of the shares you're buying when the market is down are at a lower price.

How are Vanguard investors reacting?

What we see is that most of our clients really are investors. What I mean by that is that they've got a long-term outlook and they know that markets fluctuate. By and large, they believe, as we do, that you want to have diversified portfolios. By far the vast majority of clients have not reacted to the market turbulence. It hasn't been totally quiet. People are concerned, and that's understandable. We certainly have been having more conversations in recent days, helping clients think through their decisions. But by and large, Vanguard investors tend to be very levelheaded.

Should investors be concerned about their money market funds?

Vanguard money market funds remain among the most conservative, and their quality is very, very high. We know that when you invest in a money market fund, your primary focus is safeguarding your money while allowing it to earn some interest. Simply put, Vanguard funds don't take unnecessary risks—or hidden risks— with our shareholders' money.

Our very low expense ratios mean that we don't have to invest in riskier securities to offer a competitive yield. And our portfolio managers understand the importance of liquidity. As of August 31, our Prime Money Market Fund, the largest in our lineup, had half of its assets in U.S. Treasury or federal agency securities.

We believe that the steps we've taken since the beginning of the subprime mortgage crisis a year-and-a-half ago to protect shareholders' assets continue to pay off. We are highly confident that the portfolios are well-positioned to withstand the current crisis of confidence.

What about other types of funds?

Vanguard stock and bond fund managers remain highly vigilant. We're monitoring market developments closely. But we haven't changed our approach to investing.

Our index funds still seek to track the same indexes. The managers of our actively managed stock and bond funds have not changed their strategies.

Of course, all investments carry some level of risk. When the broad stock and bond markets experience declines, you can expect funds that invest in those markets to experience declines.

Some shareholders have asked how the recent high-profile bankruptcies and collapses have affected their funds. Well, most of our stock and bond funds are broadly diversified, holding hundreds or even thousands of different securities. So problems with one company—or even a handful of companies—would represent a very small percentage of overall fund assets. But clearly the failures of these companies have had a modestly negative effect on several stock portfolios—at least for the short term—just as they've had a negative effect on the overall stock market. I don't want to suggest there's been no pain.

Should investors be concerned about the health of Vanguard or Vanguard funds?

Vanguard is in great shape. We're different in many ways from the financial firms that have been experiencing trouble.

First of all—as a firm, our business is balanced and diversified. About half of our business comes from retirement plan sponsors and financial advisors, and the other half from individual investors.

And those clients are invested in a broad mix of stocks, bonds, and money market holdings. That means Vanguard's success is not pegged to the success—or struggles—of any one segment of the financial markets.

Secondly, our business is solely focused on providing investments—primarily mutual funds—to our clients. It does not involve making risky or highly leveraged loans. It is not dependent on the health of the subprime mortgage market, nor is it dependent on the health of bond insurers. Vanguard as a firm is not dependent on the health of any one other firm or industry. Nor does Vanguard use borrowed money to "lever up" its stock or bond or money market portfolios.

And it's important to note that the financial results for each fund stem from each fund's holdings—the fund's assets are the securities it holds.

We are all investors in the markets. And of course it's painful to watch firms struggle, and for our investments to struggle along with them. But at Vanguard, we don't let the near-term bumps in the road throw us off our long-term path, and neither should you.

Thank you for your continued trust, and thank you for investing with Vanguard.

Notes

  • An investment in a money market fund is not insured or guaranteed by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation or any other government agency. Although a money market fund seeks to preserve the value of your investment at $1 per share, it is possible to lose money by investing in such a fund.
  • Mutual funds are subject to market risk. Investments in bond funds are subject to interest rate, credit, and inflation risk.
  • Past performance is no guarantee of future returns.
  • Diversification does not ensure a profit or protect against a loss in a declining market.

https://personal.vanguard.com/us/VanguardViewsArticlePublic?ArticleJSP=/freshness/News_and_Views/news_ALL_mcnabbqa_09192008_ALL.jsp&src=NMC&returnLink=/freshness/News_and_Views/news_ALL_mcnabbqa_09192008_ALL.jsp

Re: Are Vanguard money market funds safe?
09-19-2008, 9:57 PM | Post #2564538
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Prime MM will not break the buck.  And even if it did, the Treasury plan today included insurance for MM funds.  They did this, I believe, to calm irrational fears rather than out of concern a big retail MM fund would collapse. 

 

Re: Are Vanguard money market funds safe?
09-20-2008, 6:50 AM | Post #2564600
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Thanks for sending thru the Vanguard response to this crisis. I do feel better after having read their comments.

 However, for the cynic in me, I think everyone should read and pay special attention to the " notes " at the end of the message. Essentially, they say buyer beware and there are no guarantees.!

 

 

Re: Are Vanguard money market funds safe?
09-20-2008, 7:46 AM | Post #2564617
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Does anybody know how tax-exempt money market funds fit into all this - because they are invested in municipal bonds are they more or less safe than taxable money markets in this environment?
Will Vanguard opt for insurance?
09-20-2008, 7:54 AM | Post #2564621
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billjam:

Prime MM will not break the buck.  And even if it did, the Treasury plan today included insurance for MM funds.  They did this, I believe, to calm irrational fears rather than out of concern a big retail MM fund would collapse. 

 

Participation is voluntary, and will not be free (in that sense, it is similar to FDIC insurance for banks).  Since "Vanguard is confident in the stability of its money market funds", will it eschew the insurance in favor of lower costs, or will it succumb to the hype and fear, and cut its funds' yields by paying for the insurance? 

I think Vanguard has a PR problem either way (as does any other fund family that has expressed "confidence in the stability of its MMFs", though Vanguard has the additional factor of being the low cost leader). 

Re: Are Vanguard money market funds safe?
09-20-2008, 8:59 AM | Post #2564646
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Hi James,

Of course there is no such thing as a riskless investment, as you recognized with CDs. You can’t cash in even a short-term CD when the option to buy one double or triple the coupon rate comes along. You can’t know you are not going to get hit by a truck in your little gas-miser going to work, but you are not going to drive an SUV unless you can afford the gas, huh?

Everything has risks, but a Vanguard Money Market is about as close to riskless as you are going to get – but then again, there is that thing called inflation and taxes that eat into the returns.

Chin

Re: Are Vanguard money market funds safe?
09-20-2008, 5:01 PM | Post #2564816
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Vanguard admiral MM Fund (VSUXX)

  • Seeks to provide current income while maintaining liquidity and a stable share price of $1.
  • Invests solely in short-term direct government obligations, such as U.S. Treasury bills, that are backed by the full faith and credit of the U.S. government.
  • Has extremely low expenses because of its high minimum investment.
Re: Are Vanguard money market funds safe?
09-20-2008, 5:21 PM | Post #2564822
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Correction: Ticker Symbol 

Vanguard Admiral MM Fund (VUSXX)

Re: Are Vanguard money market funds safe?
09-22-2008, 7:24 AM | Post #2565252
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The Treasury has clarified that *both* taxable and tax-exempt money market funds will be covered by the insurance program. It will provide coverage to shareholders for amounts held in covered funds as of the close of business on 9/19/08. Here's the link from the Treasury Dept:

 http://www.ustreas.gov/press/releases/hp1151.htm

Re: OT: Winthrop
09-22-2008, 9:39 AM | Post #2565300
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Near Mazama?

Re: Are Vanguard money market funds safe?
09-24-2008, 9:08 PM | Post #2566296
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Probably 90% of all congresspersons and bureaucrats have money at Vanguard.  It is TBTF.