Bob Barr: Health Care

Uncle Bob  is against "govt regulation" in healthcare...

Does that mean he favors ending "Medicare as we know it"... ?  Didn't hear him mention that.  Maybe he just wants to bribe seniors by continuing to give THEM socialized medicine, but opposing socialized medicine for the rest of us?

Does Uncle Bob favor ending intrusive govt regulation of pharmaceutical and medical equipment PATENTS?    Those regulations are causing higher than necessary prices in healthcare.

Does Uncle Bob favor an "open border" with respect to obtaining pharmaceuticals from Canada?  Or traveling to Cuba to obtain affordable healthcare?     I mean if our govt regulation is the problem, than those should be initiatives that he favors. 

 

 

Does that mean he favors ending "Medicare as we know it"... ?  Didn't hear him mention that.  Maybe he just wants to bribe seniors by continuing to give THEM socialized medicine, but opposing socialized medicine for the rest of us?

 

I can not see how Medicare can continue to reimburse

at 10 to 50 cents on the dollar for services with more and more Boomers retiring. 

 

Does Uncle Bob favor ending intrusive govt regulation of pharmaceutical and medical equipment PATENTS?    Those regulations are causing higher than necessary prices in healthcare.

 ?????

 

Does Uncle Bob favor an "open border" with respect to obtaining pharmaceuticals from Canada?  Or traveling to Cuba to obtain affordable healthcare?     I mean if our govt regulation is the problem, than those should be initiatives that he favors.

 ????

 

Uncle Bob????

He is not my Uncle, is he yours? 

How many people go to Cuba for Health Care?  You've seen too many movies. 

Howdy, Governor

Mr. Michael Moore's last movie brought up how wonderful the Cuban medical system works. Michael  always has a bad habit of only telling one side of the equation.   We need a new comprehensive health care system in this country. However, the bulk of the cost of this plan should be covered by our government. However, a certain amount monthly cost needs to be absorbed by individual policy holders and the individual Corporations that hire the employee.   No free lunches. The medical industry and the insurance companies need also be controlled. Have a Bud on me Governor.

[quote user="Hank"]

Howdy, Governor

Mr. Michael Moore's last movie brought up how wonderful the Cuban medical system works. Michael  always has a bad habit of only telling one side of the equation.   We need a new comprehensive health care system in this country. However, the bulk of the cost of this plan should be covered by our government. However, a certain amount monthly cost needs to be absorbed by individual policy holders and the individual Corporations that hire the employee.   No free lunches. The medical industry and the insurance companies need also be controlled. Have a Bud on me Governor.

[/quote]

 the bulk of the cost of this plan should be covered by our government

 

 WHY?

 

Governor,  Almost 60 % of  our citizens have no health care. The majority of these souls cannot afford the health care premiums.  Now these unfortune people are going to the emergency wards of their local hospital for services.  Now Governor you wonder why hospital cost have gone astronomical high. If we keep allowing our health care providers to increase the cost of individual policies by 15 to 20% per year you will have even more middle class citizens going to the emergency care facilties. I have not even brought up our 12 to 18 million illegals who are also the emergency health care or other medical facilities for primary care. What's the solution Governor?

[quote user="Hank"]Governor,  Almost 60 % of  our citizens have no health care. The majority of these souls cannot afford the health care premiums.  Now these unfortune people are going to the emergency wards of their local hospital for services.  Now Governor you wonder why hospital cost have gone astronomical high. If we keep allowing our health care providers to increase the cost of individual policies by 15 to 20% per year you will have even more middle class citizens going to the emergency care facilties. I have not even brought up our 12 to 18 million illegals who are also the emergency health care or other medical facilities for primary care. What's the solution Governor?[/quote]

I am NOT Governor, BUT

If you can not see the government is the problem

you can not see the solution. 

I like what Bob is saying - return health care decisions to "the people" and their doctors.

So Hank, regarding all those people who can't afford health care: that's just their decision.

And regarding all the people who go bankrupt each year from medical bills: that's just their decision.

And regarding all the people who are denied insurance: their decision.

What a great system!
 

 

 

Hi danielTX,

I was looking at my Mom's Medicare statement the other day and she was charged $250.00 for something I can not remember what it was. Medicare paid $50 or so her blue cross paid $26 or so and that was it.

Medicare capped what could be charged.

But the service provider does not eat the difference. COSTS just like squeezing a balloon the air just goes to an other part of the balloon. Medicare makes health care cheap for some and a disaster for others.

So the true cost of Medicare is those people who  "can't afford health care", "go bankrupt each year from medical bills" and "are denied insurance".

There is a difference between Health Insurance and health care. If everyone had health insurance and paid for their own health care there would be far fewer problems.

Using insurance companies to pay for health care is expensive. But having Health Insurance that ONLY covers catastrophic costs is cheap.

It is only going to get worse, cause of the Baby Boom Bulge is retiring.

P.S. here is an other example:

I was charged $600.00 dollars for a plastic tube
3 or 4 feet long for a steroid IV, this was the cost JUST for the tube it gets used once.

I believe it was 4 treatments @ $2000.00 each

Why should a 3 or 4 foot plastic tube cost $600.00 dollars? 

 

Santa Cruz,  I agree with you the government is the problem.  However, the insurance and health care industry has penetrated our Congress so much that these industry are writing the laws and excessively  profiteering.  I believe we need a socialistic aproach to our health care problems.

Santa

you make some good points. I agree that when medicare underpays it is like squeezing a balloon. But I don't see why that can't be corrected.  I for one don't wish to see my mom loose her medicare.

Yes having health insurance that only covers catastrophic costs would lower ones health insurance costs, but for a lot of families it would increase their out of pockets expenses to the point of crippling them financially.

What about all those hard working, non college educated, rural white people who the election is suddenly all about? Apparently they can't even afford a few hundred a month in gas and you expect them to pay thousands a year in out of pocket medical expenses in addition to their insurance premiums?

I think there has got to be a better way.  We are the only developed nation where people go bankrupt from medical expenses.

I wonder how much that $600 plastic tube costs in Europe?

 

Economics 101:

The "government" does not pay anything, the taxpayers do.

Corporations don't pay health insurance premiums, the consumers do.

There is no free lunch.

Mark 

By the way, if someone wants to pay my insurance...

Santa, I hear you loud and clear.  It is strange but when I grew up in the 50's  health care was not a big isue for the low , middle low and middle class. Doctors still made house calls.  My dad had $5.00 taken out of his $ 150.00  a week pay check for medical insurance.  A night in the hospital was about$35.00.  His insurance covered 90% of this total. An  average prescription was about $3.00. Nobody went bankrupt from medical expenses.  I think the driving force behind the health care excalation are the following:  Unrealistic high mal- practice medical law suits, Uncontrolled Insurance industry, uncontrolled medical and pharmaseutical industry, health care facilities not conrtoling their costs  by not sharing expensive high tech equipment with other facitities and the tremendous influx of unfortunate people   using health care facilties who are unable to pay.  These are legal residences and undocumented residences.  I think we need a socialistic approach like our European and Canadian friends are receiving. Nobody in Canada is going bankrupt because of medical espenses.  I  also know that these systems are not perfect but they are "a hell of a lot better " than what we get in the US now. That is my opinion.

Hank, I've had personal ( in one case - life saving ) experience with "socialized" medicine in France, UK, Japan and Canada and I totally agree. No brainer. Why so many people in the US defend and insist on preserving the present system is beyond my meagre understanding.  

[quote user="Hank"]Santa, I hear you loud and clear.  It is strange but when I grew up in the 50's  health care was not a big isue for the low , middle low and middle class. Doctors still made house calls.  My dad had $5.00 taken out of his $ 150.00  a week pay check for medical insurance.  A night in the hospital was about$35.00.  His insurance covered 90% of this total. An  average prescription was about $3.00. Nobody went bankrupt from medical expenses.  I think the driving force behind the health care excalation are the following:  Unrealistic high mal- practice medical law suits, Uncontrolled Insurance industry, uncontrolled medical and pharmaseutical industry, health care facilities not conrtoling their costs  by not sharing expensive high tech equipment with other facitities and the tremendous influx of unfortunate people   using health care facilties who are unable to pay.  These are legal residences and undocumented residences.  I think we need a socialistic approach like our European and Canadian friends are receiving. Nobody in Canada is going bankrupt because of medical espenses.  I  also know that these systems are not perfect but they are "a hell of a lot better " than what we get in the US now. That is my opinion.[/quote]

 

Actually, Hank, the driving force had its roots in WWII. Having a shortage of labor and wage controls, companies resorted to offering benefits to attract workers. Being tax deductible (thank you Uncle Sam) this continued after WWII. Enter the 60's and Medicare and Medicaid. Now you have a huge segment of the population completely disconnected from the costs of what they are using. For them, medical care is virtually "free", and, not surprisingly, demand mushroomed. With unlimited demand, and no cost, prices skyrocketed. Now insurance companies are trying to pass some of those costs back to the consumers who use the service in order to dampen demand. The reason costs were so  low in the 50's was because the huge demand  caused by insurance and tax subsidies had not fully impacted the health care industry. The culprit is not the health care industry or the insurance industry. They are simply responding to the laws of supply and demand. The driving force for escalating costs is the government. Competition, like WalMart's $4 generic prescription costs, can help to drive down costs. WalMart is also looking at having basic medical care in their facilities. I have no doubt the Left will support WalMart in their efforts to help the poor.

Mark 

[quote user="pudman"]Hank, I've had personal ( in one case - life saving ) experience with "socialized" medicine in France, UK, Japan and Canada and I totally agree. No brainer. Why so many people in the US defend and insist on preserving the present system is beyond my meagre understanding.  [/quote]

The system is by far, the best in the world.  It just doesnt cover everybody.  So, the solution should not be to revolutionize and degrade the care the 85% with insurance pay but to make small changes so that everyone is covered.

I, too, have had experiences with Western European medicine.  My father grew up in Sicily and went to medical school in Palermo.  He came here when he was 27 because he believed there was more opportunity under our system.

However, my parents would go back to Sicily every summer (My dad still has his fathers vinyard).  This past summer, my mother did not feel well and my dad wanted her to get a CT scan.  He called the local hospital (the local closest one being over an hour away (in Palermo) even though they were in a town of 65,000.   They told him to come in four weeks later.  They also told him that the MRI machine was down and it was the only one within 4 hours drive. 

My parents were on the next flight back to the states where she was in the local hospital getting the best care in the world.   

Mark, I cannot improve on your analysis.  Great post

Governor - good points.  Our system has it's problems.  But the other side has its as well, which the left is not willing to acknowledge.

Unfortunately, when our Democratic friends take over, they are going to remake healthcare in this country.  They are NOT going to remake Washington or the system.  I think there is a good chance that, about a decade from now, we in the US will end up with a COMBINATION of the most of the worst elements of BOTH socialized medicine of Western Europe AND what we have here.  The only difference is that eveyone will be technically "covered".  Swell.

I think it was Churchill that made the remark to the effect that, "The inherent vice of Capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings.  The inherent virtue of Socialism is the equal sharing of misery."

That pretty much covers our outlook for healthcare in a nutshell.

MWL

Personal examples:

I have to take thyroid every day.

I have hypothyroidism.

I go to my doctor ($100.00) get my TSH tested($50.00) get a prescription for synthyroid($10.00 for 30 days)

or

2. 

Thyroid TSH Test Kit by BioSafe by BioSafe Buy new: $45.95 $37.95  Health & Personal Care:

at amazon

and

 

Itemnumber:	PL0052
Manufacturer:	PREMIER LABS
Description:	New Zealand Glandular Thyroid
UPC:
Size:	120 Caps
Suggested Retail:	$39.95
Discount:	31% OFF MSRP
Our Price:	$ 27.57
Quantity:
( 5 for $ 25.97ea.= $ 129.85 ) 35% OFF MSRP

I have take the second route

My Doctor does not like it cause it takes control away from him.

If I was not paying out of pocket I would have never researched this.
 

Mark, I agree with your first statements of labor and wage controls.  But please do not insult me with "insurance companies and health care industries are only trying to pass some of those costs back to the consumer." The culprit is a combination of our government, health care and the insurance industry and mal-practise excessive law suits and some individual policy holders who are abusing a broken system.  The ugly part of Capatilism is showing when it comes to health care. "GREED"

Santa-

This is exactly what my professor (Governor Lamm) said was essential to any fix of the health care system.  In 1960, the average patient paid $0.60 of each health care dollar they spent.  Today, that number is less than $0.17 per dollar.  There is just no incentive for the patient to care about costs when they dont feel any of the pinch. 

This is why people like the Socialist systems so much.  They dont have to pay anything out of pocket because they are getting killed on their payroll taxes and that is set in stone. 
 

Governor, you are spot on.

I personally am open to suggestions on healthcare reform.

HOWEVER (Attn:  Hank - this is important) there is one element that is absolutely crucial to any successful reform or our healthcare system, regardless of what philosophy any changes are based on and by whom and how such changes are eventually made.

The INDIVIDUAL consumer who receives healthcare services MUST pay a portion, no matter (almost) how small, of each service received.  Yes, some sort of provision can perhaps be made for those who "can't afford" it.  But the consumer MUST pay part of the cost INDIVIDUALLY and PERSONALLY each time.

If this is not done, the demand for healthcare, the availability of which will always be limited to some degree, goes to infinity, and costs will never be controlled.  You can call it "greed" all you want - or you can, as I would prefer, call it "reality".

The biggest single problem with our healthcare system - the biggest cause of the problem that has developed over the past four decades or so - is that most of the costs are "third partied" paid.  Consequently, neither those providing healthcare nor those receving it have had much if any incentive to control costs.

MWL

"This is why people like the Socialist systems so much.  They dont have to pay anything out of pocket because they are getting killed on their payroll taxes and that is set in stone."

It is especially beguiling when the costs can be transferred to others in our tax system. The wealthy will not be affected by a socialized medical system since they can afford to purchase what they wish. Corporations will love it, since they will no longer need to offer medical insurance. The poor will love it since they won't have to pay anything. The total, real costs will be absorbed by the people who are working to get ahead, one step forward and two steps back. Upward mobility will be curtailed. Medical care will be rationed (waiting weeks for an MRI). Quality will decline. The Left willl feel better. I do hope that Congress, in its infinite wisdom, will mandate that they, along with the American people, will be required to use whatever system they devise. I'm not holding my breath on that, though.

Mark 

Mwleach, I agree with you 100% the individual consumer must pay a portion of medical service received. You are right on there is no incentive to control costs on all parties involved including mal-practice law firms.

[quote user="Governor"]

Santa-

This is exactly what my professor (Governor Lamm) said was essential to any fix of the health care system.  In 1960, the average patient paid $0.60 of each health care dollar they spent.  Today, that number is less than $0.17 per dollar.  There is just no incentive for the patient to care about costs when they dont feel any of the pinch. 

This is why people like the Socialist systems so much.  They dont have to pay anything out of pocket because they are getting killed on their payroll taxes and that is set in stone. 
 

[/quote]

They dont have to pay anything out of pocket because they are getting killed on their payroll taxes and that is set in stone.  

Is that like looking away when they JAB a needle

in you, cause IF YOU DON'T SEE IT IT WON'T HURT?