pudman:

Hank, I've had personal ( in one case - life saving ) experience with "socialized" medicine in France, UK, Japan and Canada and I totally agree. No brainer. Why so many people in the US defend and insist on preserving the present system is beyond my meagre understanding.  

The system is by far, the best in the world.  It just doesnt cover everybody.  So, the solution should not be to revolutionize and degrade the care the 85% with insurance pay but to make small changes so that everyone is covered.

I, too, have had experiences with Western European medicine.  My father grew up in Sicily and went to medical school in Palermo.  He came here when he was 27 because he believed there was more opportunity under our system.

However, my parents would go back to Sicily every summer (My dad still has his fathers vinyard).  This past summer, my mother did not feel well and my dad wanted her to get a CT scan.  He called the local hospital (the local closest one being over an hour away (in Palermo) even though they were in a town of 65,000.   They told him to come in four weeks later.  They also told him that the MRI machine was down and it was the only one within 4 hours drive. 

My parents were on the next flight back to the states where she was in the local hospital getting the best care in the world.   

Mark, I cannot improve on your analysis.  Great post

Governor - good points.  Our system has it's problems.  But the other side has its as well, which the left is not willing to acknowledge.

Unfortunately, when our Democratic friends take over, they are going to remake healthcare in this country.  They are NOT going to remake Washington or the system.  I think there is a good chance that, about a decade from now, we in the US will end up with a COMBINATION of the most of the worst elements of BOTH socialized medicine of Western Europe AND what we have here.  The only difference is that eveyone will be technically "covered".  Swell.

I think it was Churchill that made the remark to the effect that, "The inherent vice of Capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings.  The inherent virtue of Socialism is the equal sharing of misery."

That pretty much covers our outlook for healthcare in a nutshell.

MWL

Personal examples:

I have to take thyroid every day.

I have hypothyroidism.

I go to my doctor ($100.00) get my TSH tested($50.00) get a prescription for synthyroid($10.00 for 30 days)

or

2. 

Thyroid TSH Test Kit by BioSafe by BioSafe Buy new: $45.95 $37.95  Health & Personal Care:

at amazon

and

I have take the second route

My Doctor does not like it cause it takes control away from him.

If I was not paying out of pocket I would have never researched this.
 

Santa-

This is exactly what my professor (Governor Lamm) said was essential to any fix of the health care system.  In 1960, the average patient paid $0.60 of each health care dollar they spent.  Today, that number is less than $0.17 per dollar.  There is just no incentive for the patient to care about costs when they dont feel any of the pinch. 

This is why people like the Socialist systems so much.  They dont have to pay anything out of pocket because they are getting killed on their payroll taxes and that is set in stone. 
 

Governor, you are spot on.

I personally am open to suggestions on healthcare reform.

HOWEVER (Attn:  Hank - this is important) there is one element that is absolutely crucial to any successful reform or our healthcare system, regardless of what philosophy any changes are based on and by whom and how such changes are eventually made.

The INDIVIDUAL consumer who receives healthcare services MUST pay a portion, no matter (almost) how small, of each service received.  Yes, some sort of provision can perhaps be made for those who "can't afford" it.  But the consumer MUST pay part of the cost INDIVIDUALLY and PERSONALLY each time.

If this is not done, the demand for healthcare, the availability of which will always be limited to some degree, goes to infinity, and costs will never be controlled.  You can call it "greed" all you want - or you can, as I would prefer, call it "reality".

The biggest single problem with our healthcare system - the biggest cause of the problem that has developed over the past four decades or so - is that most of the costs are "third partied" paid.  Consequently, neither those providing healthcare nor those receving it have had much if any incentive to control costs.

MWL

"This is why people like the Socialist systems so much.  They dont have to pay anything out of pocket because they are getting killed on their payroll taxes and that is set in stone."

It is especially beguiling when the costs can be transferred to others in our tax system. The wealthy will not be affected by a socialized medical system since they can afford to purchase what they wish. Corporations will love it, since they will no longer need to offer medical insurance. The poor will love it since they won't have to pay anything. The total, real costs will be absorbed by the people who are working to get ahead, one step forward and two steps back. Upward mobility will be curtailed. Medical care will be rationed (waiting weeks for an MRI). Quality will decline. The Left willl feel better. I do hope that Congress, in its infinite wisdom, will mandate that they, along with the American people, will be required to use whatever system they devise. I'm not holding my breath on that, though.

Mark 

Governor:

Santa-

This is exactly what my professor (Governor Lamm) said was essential to any fix of the health care system.  In 1960, the average patient paid $0.60 of each health care dollar they spent.  Today, that number is less than $0.17 per dollar.  There is just no incentive for the patient to care about costs when they dont feel any of the pinch. 

This is why people like the Socialist systems so much.  They dont have to pay anything out of pocket because they are getting killed on their payroll taxes and that is set in stone. 
 

They dont have to pay anything out of pocket because they are getting killed on their payroll taxes and that is set in stone.  

Is that like looking away when they JAB a needle

in you, cause IF YOU DON'T SEE IT IT WON'T HURT?