skyrockets (electricity will obviously rise dramatically), what would you do to save on these increasing costs?

Originally posted in thread: 211

We put less than 10,000 miles a year on our van, and the largest portion of electricity our electric company produces is produced by coal. Not only that, but we have mild winters anyway, seldom even needing heat during the winter. Now SUMMER is a different matter. Even then we could "camp out" during the day at the mall, or library. Of course the wino's stink up the library during the summer, in the winter they don't smell as bad. Nothing like a wino basted by Florida's August heat; that will make your gorge rise PDQ.

But, those conditions would certainly bode disastrous for our seniors in the great frozen north, and those having long commutes for work, anywhere they live.

Our electric company has a program that charges volunteer customers extra, to help the poorer users afford their bills. I'll consider giving to that program if we were to have an unusually cold winter.

Do they have like programs up north? I don't understand how many could afford to keep warm. Are there laws which prevent gas and electricity from being turned off it if is bitterly cold?

Fortunately we are blessed with a tight house, and little real need to drive many miles.

Rick

Originally posted in thread: 211

Lowering home temperature. To support lower temperatures, it's good to buy larger wearings, use one trouser over another, etc. Years ago, I found a very large plastic wearing in a camping store, it was chinese and was cheap, 10 to 20 dollar, I think.

Originally posted in thread: 211

You cab also look in the offtopic forum the thread "House heating: do you have ideas". Several ideas and big links.

Originally posted in thread: 211

Home energy costs, both winter and summer, are low and not a factor.
Perhaps some less travel in the gas guzzling RV, but not much. That is if petrol is available.

I promise not to take a cruise on a huge ship to a little island, nor take an SST flight to Paris. I will not own a race car and do the NASCAR circuit. Can you imagine how much THAT fuel costs?
I promise not to own another boat.
I also promise to drive at 55 to 60 mph, regardless of the idiots that are passing me at 80 mph.
I will not bitch about the cost increase in food items. Tractors eat fuel, as do the semi's delivering it.

Just give me a few hundred gallons of no-lead each year, so I can take the gas sucking RV to visit relatives, (her's, not mine).
There is nothing like touring the back roads of America, and not having to sleep in a bad bed with your sister-in-law's cat.
Rossby

Originally posted in thread: 211

I suggest to cultivate plants in your house in winter, so you don't need to open the windows very often when the outside temperature is low.
This site is useful: rocklaw.practicearealibrary.com/article/13674

I suggest to plant beans and lentils. Perhaps they are not so good like the plants suggested in the site, but you can eat them.

Originally posted in thread: 211

At the suggested number of plants (2 potted plants per 100 square feet), it would mean 60-70 plants for a 3000-3500 square foot home.

It would be a full time job keeping the plants in good shape, and keeping our cats out of them.

Good idea, perhaps, but I'll skip this one, as I don't want more plants inside my home than outside in our landscaping.

Rick

Originally posted in thread: 211

mostly plant-based diet a few years ago for the health benefits substantially decreased our food bill, decreased the monthly utility bills and also decreased the amount of food prep/clean-up time. It's not just what you drive, it's also what you eat. A meat centered diet takes more oil, since meat production is very energy intensive. And it's not like the food and energy companies are going to advertise the fact. We still eat meat, just very small amounts, infrequently. I have always advocated a small, well insulated residence and have always avoided materialism(all that stuff takes oil to make). My wife and I have always lived in 800 square feet or less in over 25 years of marriage. I grew up very poor(thank goodness) and am pretty good at frugality, but many of the factors I see coming together in the very near future will test many of us in our "culture of energy".

Originally posted in thread: 211

Aluminum can be used on the walls, fine films of aluminum, like the aluminum films used for meat.
Some food pockets have aluminum films.

Originally posted in thread: 211

I must see this. thanks.

60-70 plants---Funny stuff, Rick. If you use the right plants, it can be a profitable venture, from what I've heard. I have no personal experience in such matters.

Originally posted in thread: 211

It seems a cottage industry has sprang up; crafting aluminum foil hats for the oil industry conspiracy advocates.

I'm pretty sure my deed restrictions would prevent aluminum foil on my walls.

Jensen, I'm thinking 60-70 plants might go a bit beyond the claim of personal use, tho personal use isn't legal in Florida, anyways.

I'd much rather have a joint than to use the painkillers I am currently prescribed. Maybe one day we might be able to grow a small amount legally, for medicinal uses only, of course!

Rick

Originally posted in thread: 211

Just like Rayski1/Ray. No personal use limit in Florida? Jeeze, I would think Jimmy Buffett would have more influence than that. Florida has gone to pot since Bob Graham lost control. It's another fascist state down there now.

Very sad.

Originally posted in thread: 211

Sure up North there are several programs depending upon where you live. These programs pay for a large portion of your heating bill based upon your income, plus reduce your rates on natural gas, electric, end telephone where applicable.

FPL has a few incentives however you really need to dig in order to find them. Since FPL has increased rates to around 13cents/kwh they blame it on "increasing global enrgy prices" ; CNN has it that FPL needed to increase rates by 19% in order to compensate for the damaged infrastructure in both Palm Beach and Broward Counties caused by hurricane Wilma.
There is one incentive by using less than 1,000 kw/mo, I know it is hard to do however it can be done, you just need to think green: Building and construction needs studded off walls on the inside (back to steel) with foam insulation, R-38 ceilings, Energy Star appliances, a 17 SEER or greater Air to Air heat pump (Geothermal won't work in FL), all green light bulbs, all of your peripherals (PC, entertainment, etc) on strips which can be turned off when not in use. PV co-generation (great in FL), huge tax incentives and Federal grant money too!

Originally posted in thread: 211

For 1,000 kwh usage, customer cost would be $105.89(as of 1/06). This would be 10.6 cents per kwh. The fuel component included in such charge is 5.841 cents per kwh.

With respect to hurricane damage surcharge, that amount is $1.68 per 1,000 kwh if information from FPSC is correct.

CNN needs to do better job of accurately reporting information as none of their numbers about FPL charges are even close.

With respect to "if you use the right plants, it can be a profitable venture", marijuana growers have known that for along time.

Originally posted in thread: 211

By golly,now I'm sure that dementia has set in,Jensen:-)))

Though I do smoke "make your owns" I confess that I've never smoked a left handed cig.Must be the sheltered life I have led.

Being a tightwad,I started making my own cigs some time ago.It winds up costing me appx.87 cents a pack.The tobacco is a much better grade and flavor than any commercial brand to boot.

Ray

Originally posted in thread: 211

It's time to get out of the gas powered rv.
Back in '98 I bought a new fleetwood 30'gas motorhome.This pile of junk got about four and a half miles per gallon going downhill with a tailwind.
I only kept it nine months.It was time for a pusher.I shopped around the whole country for a Monoco Diplomat.Finally found the best deal at Beaudrey's in Arizona.Ordered a diplomat,got 29% off sticker,then asked about trading my fleetwood.I recieved $600 less for the fleetwood than I had paid for it new.Not a bad deal.
The diplomat is 38'long with a 275ISB cummins diesel.I get almost 11 miles per gallon at 59 MPH.If I pull my car I love about a half mile per gallon.

Pushers cost more going in,but are much less expensive to maintain.Oil changes are at 15k miles,17 quarts of oil.
We've put on almost 50k miles on it already,and it is a pleasure driving it.My gas motorhome would veer with even a large pickup passing me.The diesel rides like a dream.

I've got it on the market now.My next will more than likely be a Tiffin.Tiffin is still a small company that puts thier customers first.Monoco used to be like that at one time.Since they have bought up beaver,sahara,holiday rambler and a few others,they have gotten to large and have forgotten who made them.
QC has declined and so has service.

Happy trails

Ray

Originally posted in thread: 211

I'd recommend checking your attic's insulation. Depending on where you live, it can make a huge difference on your heating and cooling bills. Anywhere north of Washington, DC, you should have R-49 in your attic. (R-49 is the rating of resistance for heat/cool transfer). I recently added insulation to ours (cost about $200) and figured that it would pay off in about 2 to 3 years. For more info, see the EERE Insulation website.

Another tip would be to replace your appliances with Energy Star rated ones as your old ones konk out. It may be cheaper to buy a cheap refrigerator in the short run, but over the lifetime of it, it's much cheaper to buy the one that merely sips the electricity rather than the one that gulps it. See the Energy Star site.

Jeff

Originally posted in thread: 211

I have no material and no knowledge to show pictures of my house. My house has a little forest in front. The temperature is 2 grades celsius lower in the summer than in my fathers house due to the trees.
I'm begining to use aluminum in a different manner that i'm suggesting cause the problems are different. I use aluminum when I'm in my father's house to protect against the summer heat, I put aluminum outside the house on the walls during the days, in the night no aluminum so that the coldness of the night helps to lower the wall temperature. I have some fights with the wind.
For you that have a strong winter, I suggest to put aluminum on the walls inside the house during the winter, never in summer. Even if you have aluminum in the middle of the walls, the aditional aluminum helps very much, IMO.

Originally posted in thread: 211

I hear you and know where you are coming from.
If we were full timers, or spent at least 6 months away from home, we would have a diesel pusher. One might argue the fuel savings, but long term, the comfort and durability of a pusher is with out question.

I was ready to get out of RV'ing last spring. Tried to sell our old dog but no one wanted a 28 footer w/o slides. We went "looking" and ended up "buying" since the wife found one she liked. We ended up trading in the dog on 2005 Itasca Sunova, 29 foot, 2 slides, Ford V-10.
Ray
I hear you and know where you are coming from.
If we were full timers, or spent at least 6 months away from home, we would have a diesel pusher. One might argue the fuel savings, but long term, the comfort and durability of a pusher is with out question.

I was ready to get out of RV'ing last spring. Tried to sell our old dog but no one wanted a 28 footer w/o slides. We went "looking" and ended up "buying" since the wife found one she liked. We ended up trading in the dog on 2005 Itasca Sunova, 29 foot, 2 slides, Ford V-10.

We have had a lot of problems with the V-10 engine. I could go into details but I hate to see grown folks cry. I hope that maybe, just maybe, they found the electronic engine control problem during the last trip to the Ford garage. We will know when we head home from southern Texas next month. This baby may well be the last RV we will ever own. It is what we need to winter in TX, go hunting and fishing with the kids, and see the wife's relatives.
BTW, I have known the name Tiffin for some time. Didn't they start out in P/U campers?

Home heating and aluminum.
Back in the olden days, maybe the first energy scare, I built a solar collector to add heat to our home out of reclaimed items from a salvage yard. The design used aluminum siding, painted black, to collect the therms from the sun. The siding was enclosed in a 2X4 wooden frame, and had reclaimed plastic glazing on the front. A reclaimed squirrel cage fan pushed air from the house in at one end, and back into the house at the other end. The system was "portable" so I could take it down in the summer and store it. It worked well, and I even got a tax rebate.

I am a firm believer in passive solar energy for heating, and shade or earth berming for cooling.

And now, nearly a month later, what would I do if -------.
Continue to own RSNRX.
Rossby

Originally posted in thread: 211

Thier flagship was Allegro for the longest time.
In the last few years they have come out with the Zephyr and a few others.

You have probobly seen many without realizing what they were.
Just look for the logo on the back that says "Roughing it smoothly".

I hope that the problems you have had with the Itasca are not what is turning you off from Rv'ing.

I really enjoy our for travel as I have a hard time sleeping in strange beds.We have most of our meals in our motorhome also.I don't have lots of luck in many restaurants,if they have a bad meal....I find it.

Ray

Originally posted in thread: 211

I only figured up 13 cents/kwh since my last bill was 52.00 for 400 kwh, with all of the charges included, this is the gross amount. I cannot remember if this was the North Port house, or Port Charlotte house, but no biggy. The Waterfront home in PG is going to be co-generation with a gris system, 5,000 w PV with two SunnyBoy 2500 watt fix frequendy inverters in order to run 220, and two 1,500 watt wind turbines with battey backup, and a generac running on LP. FPL has a net buy back system so we will be enjoying free electricity in the Sunshine State as we have found the grants and rebates to pay for just about everything except the electrician!

Originally posted in thread: 211

Old newspapers can be used as aditional insulation above the ceiling.
Used food packages also can be posted above the ceiling for insulation , specially those that have a quadratic form.

Originally posted in thread: 211

The interfaces offer resistence to heat transmission. If you put several empty food packages one over the other above the ceiling, the heat must pass from the package wall to the inside air, then from the air to the the other package wall and so on. I mean packages like Kellogs corn flakes.

Originally posted in thread: 211

Electricity is not really a concern for me, as it is all self-generated. As far as NG goes, though, if it really got to be too expensive I just wouldn't run my furnace at all. Right now it's rarely used, but we do keep it at around 68 in the winter. If it ever becomes a serious problem, more blankets and thicker jackets will suffice, and we won't freeze in Southern California. I suppose if it comes down to it, maybe I would try using a solar cooker of some sort rather than use gas for cooking.

Originally posted in thread: 211

On many parts of this earth potable water will become more precious than oil.
It is already there in Africa.
It is starting to happen right here in the good old USA's Southwest, right before our very eyes, as we keep pumping out babies, accepting Illegal Aliens, and converting farm land into swimming pools and condos.

Oops!
Sorry about that.
This post was meant for the "Going Out of Your Mind While Oatmeal Dribbles Down Your Bathrobe" forum.
Rossby

Originally posted in thread: 211

"... I wrote that probably Rick is spending more energy than reasonable in Florida...."

How thoughtful of you to worry I might be spending more energy than reasonable here in Florida.

But, don't worry. One way we determine how much is reasonable is by deciding how much we want to spend on a certain commodity or product.

If we find we are spending more than we would like, we make changes to bring a lower figure into our life.

So far I'm OK with what I'm spending on energy. I spend more than average probably due to having a large home, truthfully too large now that there are just the two of us. But, I like my home, neighbors, and capped property taxes, as well. And, it's my choice, and you shouldn't worry about me. I can afford my spending quite nicely, thus far.

BTW, if you are ever in Tampa, I'll even give you the used oil in my Fry Baby. You can use it when you make another batch of biodiesel. Hurry though, I think I spotted Willy Nelson hanging around. I'm afraid he will leave an oil ring in my pond if he gets his head wet.

Rick

Originally posted in thread: 211

What is a reasonable electric energy consumption? Many posters wrote we have R20, R30 and this and that, so our house is very good. Then I thought about what can be considered reasonable. Then I look for some bills. My conclusion is that a house with 4 persons should use below 300 kwh a month, with no other source for heating or cooling and with no independent source of energy. I hope that you see that my standards are more exigent than yours, therefore some ideas seems strange for guys that have R30 and so on and think nothing more should be done. To calculate the number (300 kwh) I considered a time when the consuption is increaded by one person that have cancer and therefore uses more electricity. If I considered other time, the result would be lower. I remember in other times bills with 50 kwh.
The houses that I know are all a primitive garbage, in my opinion.

Originally posted in thread: 211

This post originated on 01/22/2006....2006. All of our worst fears have not materialized have they?

While I appreciate those who take it upon themselves to conserve and those who don't use resources in a reckless mannner, I have seen people spend more in terms of money and time in the name of "conservation" than what the "conservation" returns to them.

It really all comes down to "costs and benefits" and one's time/planning horizons.

Originally posted in thread: 211

I like that you express your opinion.
For me, it's a question about how the world should be.
I remember other oil problems in the past, certainly they were not so important for you as for me.

Originally posted in thread: 211

I don't know what you remember but I remember when people were debating on where to build their "bomb shelters" which happened to turn into very good root cellars for those who gardened enough.

Question for you: Are you just a very zealous conservationist or a "survivalist" in disguise?

Originally posted in thread: 211

indoor camping.

If oil is too high, try indoor camping. What do I mean? Buy a good hut, tent, one you could use in Alasca and mount it in your house so that you can sleep without any heating.

My dad graduated high school in 1929, I learned a lot of tips from him, and have discovered many myself.

1.  Insulation is about dead air space.  Stacking newspapers is a good way to get rid of old papers and create a fire hazard. Throw them out and insulate your attic space to R39 up, R49 is better.  Insulate your crawl space. Always think "dead air". If you have windows, they are "cold" radiators.  Dad used to put a layer of sheet plastic outside to create a dead air space. I have double glazed windows ( had to replace anyway) and they help some, but  are not that efficient. What is efficient is a good interior window covering. I used honeycomb cell shades that cover the entire window opening ( and let in light) with three layers of honeycomb fabric cells. I have these on all my windows and the effect on my bill has been great.  I use small space heaters in rooms where I spend time, rather than heat the entire house. 

2.  Turn the lights off when you are not using them. I had that one beat into my head (LOL).

3. Don't run hot water needlessly and  use water restrictors.

4. Layer clothing.

5. Heat with gas if possible, electric heat is the LEAST  efficient of all methods.

6.  Get an economical car and don't leadfoot it. I got a speeding ticket a few months ago and now that I have been reminded, my gas mileage has improved 25%.

7. If you have a firelplace, don't heat with it. Waste of money. Get a EPA approved fireplace insert and it will pay back in two years. Mine burns three logs all night instead of three logs in two hours, and puts out so much heat I have to open a window sometimes. Don't burn wet wood.

8. I keep my bedroom cool, my dog and blankets keep me warm.

9. Go around your house and look for air leaks, under and around doors and windows, through floors ( insulation below will help a lot), and at all electrical outlets ( you can buy  foam gaskets to stop the constant stream of air from older switch and plug outlets.  You will be amazed at how much cold air comes into your house through them.  A trick is to pull the cover, and if you see dark dust on the areas covered by the plastic cover, that means a stream of air has been blowing through depositing dust.

10. Throw out your old fashioned incandescent light bulbs and get compact fluorescents. The 1-3 dollars a month you save means $20-$50 yearly, and they now make fluorescents that have nice color  that mimics daylight (SP35 or SPX35) and they no longer flicker.  

11.  Always think about how hot air escapes and cold air enters. Does your kitchen hood have a working damper? 

 

dual post

Good, Ernie. The honeycomb shell shades seem to be very interesting.

Excuse me my mistake. It's cell and not shell.

I was not going to say anything  :).

 

Here is the website. Every window in my house but one uses the honeycomb shades.

 

http://www.smithandnoble.com/sn/about_us.jsp 

Some of the same things I've been doing since back in the last century; 1. live close to work(as in biking distance), 2. insulate, insulate, insulate, 3. try to buy just what's necessary(excess stuff takes oil to make), 4. use a clothes line(inside and outside), 4. drive the speed limit - it saves lives, insurance rates go down, it is cheaper and saves oil, and it's the law,  5. eat a plant based diet(meat production and storage is very energy intensive), 6. Use as much human power as possible, avoid using anything like a leaf blower, etc.(again it uses more oil),   7. don't have such a "narrow" temperature range(stores and homes have their thermostats set too cold in the summer and too hot in the winter,  8. Use fluorescent bulbs.  9. grow some of your own food(water crops, not grass).  We really have more control over the price of oil than we think. The cumulative impact could be enormous and then watch what happens to the price of oil.

The cost of electricity is mainly related to the use of coal and urauim (for use in nuclear power plants).  We have enormous supplies of these resources in the US to produce all of our electrical needs without the use of oil!  We should greatly increase the building of nuclear power plants - a very efficient and clean source!

Oil (and natural gas) are abundant in enormous quantities in the US including Alaska, off shore along the Pacific coast, the Gulf of Mexico and in oil shale in the upper middle US and southern mid-Canada, and from Mexico if needed! 

We can save on energy costs by developing these resources right here if only politicians influenced by mainly left wing Liberal beaucrats with unreasonable regulations would get out of the way!  This development can also be accoplished in an entirely environmentally friendly manner!   

Meanwhile we are left at the mercy of oil mostly from the middle east and unstable countries, and we cannot posibly live without large supplies of oil and even remotely maintain our economy and standard of living!

Insisting on developing known and new alternatives for oil should proceed, but at this point no reliable alternatives exists! 

There is no doubt that ALL of the political rhetoric about energy independence in the USA is just that. It will be decades, if ever. 

 

Offshore oil at the West Coast is minimal. The total ANWAR output will not feed US needs for a year.  The Gulf of Mexico is already heavily drilled, and multi million dollar dry holes are being drilled under 5-10 thousand feet of water.  And going down three more miles. If we decided tomorrow to utilize only nuclear energy, we would need decades to build the plants, and the waste disposal is still not solved.

 

OIl shale and oil sands are SO environmentally destructive as to defy the imagination. The toxic waste pond for the Syncrude facility in Canada is the largest man made earthen dam in the world. The pond is thirteen MILES long and leaking heavy metals into the Athabasca river. There is not enough fresh water IN CANADA to produce the oil needed to supply a third of America's needs. (Huge amounts of water are needed to produce oils sands oil). Most of Canadian natural gas production already goes to oil sands oil production. It takes one barrel of energy to produce two or three of oil.

 America has lived a high life for decades.  Now we must learn to dig in and learn to STOP WASTING ENERGY, not to produce more of it to throw away on plastic playthings, SUVs, and heating 3000 square foot homes.
 

Some motorhomes guzzle gas.  People ask,"How many gallons to the mile did it use?"

We decided that by the time we paid personal property taxes and vehicle insurance on ours, then paid a license tag fee, plus the cost of gas after it went up and the extra time it took us to get there, that we would rather drive, eat out and stay in a motel. The costs are about the same, unless you go away from home a lot.  I won't even mention that you could earn a lot of interest on the amount you pay for the motor home, if you put it in a savings bond instead, since interest is falling fast.

We had a motorhome earlier that we pulled behind us, which was nice because you could unhook it once you got to your destination, we could drive into town to shop, without dragging it behind us. We used it at the lake.

It was nerve wrecking driving either one in the unfamiliar cities.

Having a home on wheels made it possible to go in it to smoke, when visiting distant relatives.  People are so funny about smoking, I go outside to light up and freeze in the winter and burn up in the summer.

Now that my husband has retired, we may rethink owning a motorhome, if we start doing a lot of traveling. Gas would have to go down first.  Even then we would buy a high efficiency one. 

But, after being all practical about it, motor homes are fun!  That is worth something.