TaylorZR:

I have been told Tibix is available at Fidelity with no real minimum if it's purchased on line. Tibix is a 'more aggresive' caibx, and it has the same objective........

t

 

Hi everyone. 

Yes, Fido offers TIBIX, but there is a $75 transaction fee.  B shares of the AF family are available for consideration too, although the e/r is somewhat higher.

Regards,

Dave 

Note that tibix really is NOT for taxable accounts............

t

Lets not let marketing professionals fool us with alphabet soup.

You can put lipstick on a pig and its still a pig!

A load is a load is load, A, B or C!

With a loaded fund, they get the commission in the end.

Good Luck

Brian

Right and wrong........

A good investment is a good investment, and a bad investment is a bad investment..

======================

The 'load' excuse can be a smart excuse when one is talking about a bad investment, but can be a ridiculous excuse when one is taking about a good one.........

The longer one intends to hold a good investment, the weaker the load excuse for not buying it is........

 ====================================

Lipstick on a pig more describes a mediocre investment that happens to be no load.

t

t,

I could not agree with you more.  I think its foolish to screen out a fund simply because it is loaded.  I certainly was not calling CAIBX a pig!  That would be heresy!

It just seemed like some comments in this post made it seem like the other share classes were load free, albeit with higher expenses.  I assume most people can figure out the mechanics and understand that the higher expense is due to the larger 12b-1 trail fee (read load!), and then again some people dont dig that deep. 

I just wanted that to be clear.

Best to you.

Brian

Actually for someone wanting to hold for an extended period of time, there's very little difference between B and A shares (at least for AFs)......

C shares would be for shorter term investors..... 

t

Yes we agree again, because AF are ethical enough convert B shares to A shares after they have "recouped" the load through the higher expenses.  They need to get the load to compensate the advisor,  but apparantly have no desire to rape people.

hurleyhuckster:

 I think its foolish to screen out a fund simply because it is loaded. 

Although a fund should not be discarded from consideration simply due to load.  Lets face it, it sure does create one hell of hurdle to overcome, and should usually be avoided.

Brian

hurleyhuckster:

 ... It just seemed like some comments in this post made it seem like the other share classes were load free, albeit with higher expenses.  I assume most people can figure out the mechanics and understand that the higher expense is due to the larger 12b-1 trail fee (read load!), and then again some people dont dig that deep. 

I just wanted that to be clear.

Best to you.

Brian

Brian,

I was referring to the B shares of Capital Income Builder, and what I stated is the truth.  I never said there wasn't a "load,"  but hell, if one considers a 12b-1 fee to be a load, then almost every retail mutual fund that exists is a load fund.

As Taylor stated, and as I've stated in previous threads, the AF B class is a good alternative to the A class if one is in it for the long run.  Plug the numbers into an Excel spreadsheet.  The numbers just might surprise you.

Additionally, many so-called "no-load" funds use excessive trading tactics that end up costing shareholders a lot more than the 12b-1 fees.  It's known as high turnover, and it costs shareholders more than they realize. Given otherwise similar performance, I'll take the low-turnover loaded fund over the high-turnover no-load fund. It'll cost less in the long run.

The B shares of Capital Income Builder are anything but lipstick on a pig. 

I wanted to be clear too, but I'm probably not.

Regards,

Dave

RELAX Dave!

I am not interested in a pissing match, only the sharing of knowledge.

Your defensiveness seems to be narrowing your blinders!

Show me where I disagreed with anything t stated.  You appear to be arguing with yourself.

I would love to discuss further the share classes, 12b-1 fee, and comparisions, but unfortunately your not fostering that positive environment, its a shame, because the results might very well surprise YOU!

Have a nice weekend.

 Brian

Dave,

Let me try this again, giving you the benefit of the doubt.  Sometimes here in cyberland it is easy to take things out of context.  I stand behind everything I wrote.

I am guessing the pig expression is what set you off.  After that, it just seems you did not read my posts carefully enough, since you infer much that I never stated.

The pig comment is well known expression and was not directed at any particular fund, fund family or person.  It was just meant to mean one can try to cover up the nature of something, without changing what lies beneath.

I agree with your comments about choosing funds, show me where I stated otherwise.

Your facts are lacking somewhat in regard to 12b-1 fees, atleast to the best of my knowledge.  No-load funds can not charge a 12b-1 in excess of 0.25%, although the vast majority of them charge no 12b-1 at all.  (Vanguard, T-Rowe, Dodge & Cox)  The 12b-1 fee funds the trail fee that goes to the advisor on record, call it what you want, but me thinks thats a load and I am sure most would agree.  A-shares kick back a 0.25% trail fee where B and C kick back a 1% trail fee.  You need to carefully review the prospectus, look at time periods of contingent sales loads, time to conversion and do the math for yourself.  You will see they are pretty much getting the same darn load as if you bought A shares and paid up front.  Do the math, didnt you ever wonder why the CDSC for B is 5% decreasing yearly to zero.  Its just like annuity surrender charges, its structured all around the sales commission.  People who think if they just wait it out to avoid the CDSC are just kidding themselves.  When the load equivalent to A shares is finally "recouped" they convert to A shares.

Pay now or pay later.

Sorry for jumping on you in previous post, but your reply really annoyed me as you seemed to by trying to pick a fight about things I never said.

I only post here to learn, help and to share knowledge.

The very best to you.

Brian

Al,

Please correct any mis-information in my above post.  It is all to the best of my knowledge factual, but only stated as my opinion, based on what I have researched in the past.

Everyone,

I have some thought regarding buying a load fund over a no-load fund.  The load is meant to compensate an advisor.  You should typically only buy a load fund if you can benefit from an ethical advisor.  However, there may limited circumstances when a DIY'er may choose a loaded fund.

It might make sense if a fund is unique that it can not be found elsewhere, and no other fund or funds can fill this spot in ones portfolio.  So on this point, I say YES!

As far as the low turnover argument, although I agree with Dave, I find that argument somewhat weak.   Ofcourse, if all other comparable funds are high turnover, then the load might make up for itself on a comparision basis.  However, in most cases, I would think a comparable, low turnover, no load fund could be attainable.  On this point, I say MAYBE.

Finally, as we all know you can not buy past performance, so this should NOT be a reason to buy a loaded fund.  The expectation that a loaded fund will consistently outperform a comparable no load fund in excess of its load is laughable.  Although we may be able to point to a few lucky funds, who knows this in advance, and will it revert to the mean eventually.  Dataminers, have at me!  On this point I say NEVER!

A load is a serious drag on an investment portfolio.  If purchasing a load fund you should have a compelling reason.  Purchasing because of past performance or because it is pushed on the internet is lousy strategy, IMO.  And I dont give a crap what flavor of the alphabet were talking about. 

I am grateful to Taylor for drilling the following into my head, "Know WHAT you own, and WHY you own it". 

These are just my opinions and I welcome comments to help me learn more and possibly change my point of view.

I also would like to hear others thoughts on when it may be appropriate for a DIY'er to purchase a loaded fund.

Good Luck

Brian