The Genius Guide to Value Investing - All Comments

Re:Thornburg Mortgage is REIT-ous

TJ_NC — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 14:24:31 GMT

How's this working out for you?

Re:Thornburg Mortgage is REIT-ous

mth5221 — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 23:15:37 GMT

applejedi1:

Thornburg Mortgage (TMA) never touched a sub-prime loan. In fact, they haven't done much other than jumbo and super-jumbo mortgages, the USDA prime of the lending biz.
They have suspended their dividend, but I think they will move forward and upward from here... I’m getting a bit more.

From a beaten down $10.00 per share at the time of "I think they will move forward and upward from here... I’m getting a bit more."... to a severely beaten down and lifeless $1.65 today.

I guess it proves even a Value Investing "Genius" can miss 'em by a mile.

Re:Thornburg Mortgage is REIT-ous

applejedi1 — Sun, 04 May 2008 12:50:45 GMT

The stock is a reminder of one of my axioms though: Never put too much into any one stock. There are unforseen circumstances, including attacks by the shorters, or effects on other financial companies that cascade into healthy companies like Thornburg like an avalanche hitting a house three miles down the mountain.

Relatively, if I pick three or four outstanding financial companies, or companies in any sector, the majority of them will outpeform the market. At the end of the 3-5 year run, if I have one loser and four in double or triple-digit gains, the returns still justify my trust in the company's abilities, even if circumstances have undercut my original purchase factors.

It's never fun to have one of your picks bushwhacked. In this kind of market though, get used to it. The shorters, in the form of these bleeding hedge funds, will be looking for piggy banks to crack.

Go to the bank that Thornburg isn't the last healthy balance sheet that they raid.

Re:Thornburg Mortgage is REIT-ous

applejedi1 — Sun, 04 May 2008 12:51:07 GMT

It's never fun to have one of your picks bushwhacked. In this kind of market though, get used to it. The shorters, in the form of these bleeding hedge funds, will be looking for piggy banks to crack.

Go to the bank that Thornburg isn't the last healthy balance sheet that they raid.

Re: Re:Thornburg Mortgage is REIT-ous

Stevon — Thu, 02 Apr 2009 11:44:00 GMT

applejedi1:

This may shock a few of you, but I still own Thornburg in spite of the fiscal rape that was conducted upon it. The back-door that lead to this attack was their reverse mortgage business, which, in any other circumstance probably would not have caused them any problems. The pay-out, pay-back though requires a lot of capital out to third parties getting paid. When they call in the loans, it can cause a run on the bank.

Thornburg is down. It may be out in the long run, but, knowing the quality of the people who work there, and the high quality of the debt that they generally build, if they survive, they will become a much stronger firm, without the likelihood of dabbling in the instrument fad of the moment. I'm holding on to it, and seeing where it will go. I have very very few losers, and, if they can work with their creditors as they have done, they should be able to recover if the market doesn't rumble down further. As long as 12000 seems to be the crisis floor, I'm watching and waiting to see what Thornburg's people can do to recover.

The stock is a reminder of one of my axioms though: Never put too much into any one stock. There are unforseen circumstances, including attacks by the shorters, or effects on other financial companies that cascade into healthy companies like Thornburg like an avalanche hitting a house three miles down the mountain.

Relatively, if I pick three or four outstanding financial companies, or companies in any sector, the majority of them will outpeform the market. At the end of the 3-5 year run, if I have one loser and four in double or triple-digit gains, the returns still justify my trust in the company's abilities, even if circumstances have undercut my original purchase factors.

It's never fun to have one of your picks bushwhacked. In this kind of market though, get used to it. The shorters, in the form of these bleeding hedge funds, will be looking for piggy banks to crack.

Go to the bank that Thornburg isn't the last healthy balance sheet that they raid.

Did you hold on until the bitter end?

Re:Thornburg Mortgage is REIT-ous

applejedi1 — Sun, 04 May 2008 12:53:58 GMT

Thornburg is down. It may be out in the long run, but, knowing the quality of the people who work there, and the high quality of the debt that they generally build, if they survive, they will become a much stronger firm, without the likelihood of dabbling in the instrument fad of the moment. I'm holding on to it, and seeing where it will go. I have very very few losers, and, if they can work with their creditors as they have done, they should be able to recover if the market doesn't rumble down further. As long as 12000 seems to be the crisis floor, I'm watching and waiting to see what Thornburg's people can do to recover.

It's never fun to have one of your picks bushwhacked. In this kind of market though, get used to it. The shorters, in the form of these bleeding hedge funds, will be looking for piggy banks to crack.

Go to the bank that Thornburg isn't the last healthy balance sheet that they raid.

Re:Re:Thornburg Mortgage is REIT-ous

applejedi1 — Sun, 04 May 2008 12:55:17 GMT

This may shock a few of you, but I still own Thornburg in spite of the fiscal rape that was conducted upon it. The back-door that lead to this attack was their reverse mortgage business, which, in any other circumstance probably would not have caused them any problems. The pay-out, pay-back though requires a lot of capital out to third parties getting paid. When they call in the loans, it can cause a run on the bank. Thornburg is down. It may be out in the long run, but, knowing the quality of the people who work there, and the high quality of the debt that they generally build, if they survive, they will become a much stronger firm, without the likelihood of dabbling in the instrument fad of the moment. I'm holding on to it, and seeing where it will go. I have very very few losers, and, if they can work with their creditors as they have done, they should be able to recover if the market doesn't rumble down further. As long as 12000 seems to be the crisis floor, I'm watching and waiting to see what Thornburg's people can do to recover. The stock is a reminder of one of my axioms though: Never put too much into any one stock. There are unforseen circumstances, including attacks by the shorters, or effects on other financial companies that cascade into healthy companies like Thornburg like an avalanche hitting a house three miles down the mountain. Relatively, if I pick three or four outstanding financial companies, or companies in any sector, the majority of them will outpeform the market. At the end of the 3-5 year run, if I have one loser and four in double or triple-digit gains, the returns still justify my trust in the company's abilities, even if circumstances have undercut my original purchase factors. It's never fun to have one of your picks bushwhacked. In this kind of market though, get used to it. The shorters, in the form of these bleeding hedge funds, will be looking for piggy banks to crack. Go to the bank that Thornburg isn't the last healthy balance sheet that they raid.

Re: Thornburg Mortgage is REIT-ous

dbcooper — Thu, 16 Jun 2011 21:16:52 GMT

Shoulda set a stop. Ever invested in stocks before this one?

Re: Thornburg Mortgage is REIT-ous

closer — Thu, 16 Jun 2011 22:44:38 GMT

IMS Strategic Income (IMSIX) was one of the mutual funds that stubbornly clung to Thornburg Mortage and rode it right into the junk pile.

Re: Dealing with Madoffs and Thornburgs

playbook — Wed, 30 Dec 2009 13:12:22 GMT

Does the Thornburg to which you refer in your post have anything to do with Thornburg Investment Management which manages Tibix and other funds?

playbook

Re: Re: Dealing with Madoffs and Thornburgs

applejedi1 — Wed, 30 Dec 2009 18:38:40 GMT

No. This is Thornburg the mortgage company that was based in Santa Fe, NM.

Re: Dealing with Madoffs and Thornburgs

playbook — Wed, 30 Dec 2009 20:42:34 GMT

applejedi1:

No. This is Thornburg the mortgage company that was based in Santa Fe, NM.

Since you initiated the post and seem to be fairly knowledgeable about the goings-on, I accept your answer above, at least for now. I've been doing some searches today and these companies are connected, perhaps not legally, but they shared a new office building, had the same chairman, and probably had more business going on between them than we know about. Even the BOD at Thornburg Investments said that certain practices at both companies were regretable.

playbook

Re: Re: Dealing with Madoffs and Thornburgs

applejedi1 — Wed, 30 Dec 2009 20:47:03 GMT

Yep, but I believe, in spite of the alleged sleaze, were kept separate.

Re: Dealing with Madoffs and Thornburgs

playbook — Wed, 30 Dec 2009 21:36:17 GMT

Let's hope so. I had another $125,000 earmarked to add to Tibix, but I think I'll put it somewhere else for a while. I still have a sizable investment in Tibix which I'll keep there but I'll keep my eyes and ears open for news about Thornburg. Thanks for the post.

playbook

Re:Cemex (CX), The Housing Market & Recession/Depression America

Aalan88 — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 17:38:41 GMT

I agree with your general thesis, and in fact I just bought a few shares today at $7.00

However, what is this dividend? According to everything I could find, they haven't paid a cash dividend this year at all; they paid a small "stock dividend" last May, but there's no indication that this will be repeated. In fact, with net income down 74% last quarter, and substantial debts, it would be irresponsible to pay a dividend, IMO.

I hope you are right about a housing recovery. Failing that, it could be a very long haul before this investment becomes profitable.